Russia-Ukraine War

[wufan]

Is anyone else suspicious on why there hasn't been even a hint or efforts at starting peace talks? Where is the leadership to try and bring the 2 sides together to stop the death? Why is there no urgency to negotiate a cease-fire and get some initial demands on the table?

I wouldn’t call it suspicious necessarily, though there is certainly reason for that. I would call it incompetent.

[wichshock65]

I wouldn’t call it suspicious necessarily, though there is certainly reason for that. I would call it incompetent.

Screw that. If some frickin madman decided to invade my country, level my cities and kill everyone they see, I wouldn’t be looking for peace talks. I’d be looking to put a bullet between the eyes of every one of them and drive them the hell out.

but that’s just me. Some may have a different approach.

[pinstripers]

My guess is that Biden and Zalinsky are both getting rich off of the war.

[SB Shock]

Is anyone else suspicious on why there hasn't been even a hint or efforts at starting peace talks? Where is the leadership to try and bring the 2 sides together to stop the death? Why is there no urgency to negotiate a cease-fire and get some initial demands on the table?

There is plenty efforts for starting peace talks.

Ukrainian have said they are willing to enter talks, but have 5 conditions:

1. Territory has to be restored.
2. Russia has to respect the UN Statutes
3. War criminals have to be punished
4. War reparations
5. International guarantees this won't happen again

And Zelensky also said removal of Putin.

Russia has said they are open to peace talks but makes the following demands

1. World recognizes and accepts the annexations of the four territories of Ukraine.
2. Disarming of Ukrainian military
3. Ukraine must recognize Russia sovereignty over the Crimea.
4. Ukraine cannot join NATO

U.S. is trying to Ukraine to drop the "Putin requirement". France offered security guarantees to Russia, in which Russia quickly shot down.

Putin negotiating a peace deal means he will be removed from power. So he is going to hang on and keep ratcheting the pressure up in hopes of breaking Ukraine. Putin next step would be to declare the "special military action" to be a "war" and then fully mobilize the country.

Ukraine is not going to stop and accept defeat when they are winning, which is what they would be doing if they accepted the demands of the Russians as a starting point.

It does seem like they only way out of this is somebody in Russia would need to depose Putin and then do a reset with the world over Ukraine where they pulled their troops out of the country. Then negotiations probably could start.

[wufan]

Screw that. If some frickin madman decided to invade my country, level my cities and kill everyone they see, I wouldn’t be looking for peace talks. I’d be looking to put a bullet between the eyes of every one of them and drive them the hell out.

but that’s just me. Some may have a different approach.

I think the Ukrainians agree with this sentiment, and it’s understandable.

The bigger issue is that Putin is all in with no off ramp. An unconditional surrender has not occurred since WWII, and we all know what prompted that. Putin needs a way to surrender w/o loosing power. The US has the ability to negotiate that peace. There’s no reason anyone else needs to die before we get there.

[Shockm]

I think the Ukrainians agree with this sentiment, and it’s understandable.

The bigger issue is that Putin is all in with no off ramp. An unconditional surrender has not occurred since WWII, and we all know what prompted that. Putin needs a way to surrender w/o loosing power. The US has the ability to negotiate that peace. There’s no reason anyone else needs to die before we get there.

Would Hitler have backed down? It might make sense for Putin to do that but I’m not sure he isn’t a little on the “crazy or mad” side. The Russian Generals who are not “mad” may have to step in.

[N Crestway]

Probably the only solution for Ukrainian victory and a lasting peace is continually deeper NATO involvement until what we have is direct NATO involvement. At this point, Putin's "last stand" is a long war of attrition which he believes he can win unless NATO becomes directly involved. Putin believes there are enough fissures in NATO to prevent this level of involvement...probably also believes there is enough fear and selfishness in NATO to prevent direct involvement. Right now he is throwing down the gauntlet with Russia's massive missile attacks on Ukraine to intimidate Ukraine and NATO....essentially calling NATO's bluff. The thing that beats Russia here is a war of attrition that Russia can't possibly win.

[Shockm]

Probably the only solution for Ukrainian victory and a lasting peace is continually deeper NATO involvement until what we have is direct NATO involvement. At this point, Putin's "last stand" is a long war of attrition which he believes he can win unless NATO becomes directly involved. Putin believes there are enough fissures in NATO to prevent this level of involvement...probably also believes there is enough fear and selfishness in NATO to prevent direct involvement. Right now he is throwing down the gauntlet with Russia's massive missile attacks on Ukraine to intimidate Ukraine and NATO....essentially calling NATO's bluff. The thing that beats Russia here is a war of attrition that Russia can't possibly win.

General Keane, not long ago, said that they need to stop the slow down of the weapons necessary for Ukraine to win needs. China isn't going to enter the war. Give them the long range missiles, technology, tanks, etc. for Ukraine to take the war to Putin.

[N Crestway]

The slow down continues to a degree with no Leopard II's or M1 Abrams for Ukraine. British Challenger heavy tanks a good sign though.

[pinstripers]

Biden announces that US tax dollars will go towards supporting Ukrainian social services, including paying for government pensions.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1626736360743931909

This is obscene. Impeach him NOW

[ShockerPrez]

Corruption.

[N Crestway]

Corruption there may be in Ukraine but you have to respect their fighting ability and spirit. We haven't had a committed ally like this in my lifetime except for maybe S. Korea, and at the time of the Korean war their regime was corrupt... but today S Korea is at least a viable republic and an ally.

[Kung Wu]

I don't think he was talking about Ukraine being corrupt.

[ShockerPrez]

If we could track where our tax dollars are going, it would be one thing. But we can't. Based on how the grift works, we are funding pensions of politically juiced in persons in the Ukraine, who will be kicking 10%+ back to 'the big guys' of American politics. And the rest will be taken by the corruption machine in Ukraine. If you want to believe that we are helping any of the peasants in Ukraine, you are a gullible fool. (I don't mean 'you' as in anyone on this foum, but the 'yous' of the Twitter Ukraine flag brigade types).

Given Biden's obvious corrupt ties to Ukraine, what other conclusion is one to make?

I always poo-pooed the 'military industrial complex' rants in the past, but looking at the past 30 years and multiple admins of both parties, it is clear that it is the go to arena for corruption and business is booming.

[ShockTalk]

Just saw that while the US and Biden pledged another $500 million, Japan pledged $5.5 billion because of their "strong concern that Ukraine may be tomorrow's East Asia".