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  • Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
    I'm starting to think that NATO, particularly the addition of the Eastern European nations over the last 20 years or so has been an unnecessary slap in the face of the Russians. It wasn't enough that we defeated them in the cold war, but we start snapping up former Soviet members and adding them to an alliance whose tacit goal was to oppose their former ruler. Why step on the neck of Moscow after all the friendly relations built up with Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

    Putin selling the Russian people on the threat of "Imperialist" America striving to systematically dismantle their country and culture would be a fairly easy task compared to say... convincing half of America to stop believing in medicine and science when they needed it most...

    Our treatment of Russia by way of encroaching on their borders with a unified military alliance via their former territories needs to be rethought. Maybe NATO should be dissolved. Clearly the free countries can band together informally in the face of a new threat, but Russia... as corrupt as it is, was kind of minding its own business until we started sprinkling NATO "holy water" all around them for decades.

    Putin is no Communist. He's certainly now (and always has been a murderer), but the invasion into Ukraine may be the result of pent up frustration that we alone have fomented with our forced idealism. The Russian/Slavic culture is VERY different than American/Western. Russians are a tough people. They are also quite sad in a way. Lots of struggles. But I've always respected them for their intelligence and how they stomped on Hitler's dick.

    They were the ultimate antagonist of the 20th century. But what's going on right now in Ukraine... just doesn't seem "Russian".
    I thought that the NATO dismembering of Serbia...allowing Kosovo, an ancient part of Serbia, to break away and form an independent country would infuriate the Russians more than NATO expansion. I chalked it up to NATO-US hubris at the time. Apparently Boris Yeltsin went more or less through the roof when it happened and, sadly, he had been a friend of democracy. Understandable that it was seen as a slap in the face of Slavic "little brother" and maybe a basis for retaliation in the future.
    Last edited by N Crestway; April 22, 2022, 02:03 AM.

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    • Originally posted by N Crestway View Post

      I thought that the NATO dismembering of Serbia...allowing Kosovo, an ancient part of Serbia, to break away and form an independent country would infuriate the Russians more than NATO expansion. I chalked it up to NATO-US hubris at the time. Apparently Boris Yeltsin went more or less through the roof when it happened and, sadly, he had been a friend of democracy. Understandable that it was seen as a slap in the face of Slavic "little brother" and maybe a basis for retaliation in the future.
      Those Russians are passive aggressive bitches, that’s for sure.
      Livin the dream

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      • Originally posted by wufan View Post

        Those Russians are passive aggressive bitches, that’s for sure.
        They were so mad at Serbia, they invaded Ukraine!

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        • "Right now, there don't seem to be many good opportunities for Vladimir Putin," former U.S. NATO ambassador Douglas Lute said.


          Russia 'Can't Seize Kyiv' or Replace Zelensky in Ukraine: Ex-Ambassador

          I think they're still looking for opportunities to figure out what their goals are. They're sort of making it up as they go along," Lute responded. "Putin is trying to assess what might be possible and looking for opportunities and he'll grab the first good one available.
          Sound familiar? Applause is not necessary.

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          • Bryansk, Russia had a civillian fuel depot have an "accidental fire" this weekend. 15 minutes later, a military fuel depot had an "accidental fire" also.

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            • Just saw where Sweden and Finland have officially applied for NATO membership, which could potentially create more issues in the region along the western borders of Russia.

              Biden has state the the US will support their addition. Acceptance requires unanimous support from my understanding.

              Meanwhile, Ukraine still fights an invasion.

              Does Russia have the stomach to escalate things further?
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              • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
                Just saw where Sweden and Finland have officially applied for NATO membership, which could potentially create more issues in the region along the western borders of Russia.

                Biden has state the the US will support their addition. Acceptance requires unanimous support from my understanding.

                Meanwhile, Ukraine still fights an invasion.

                Does Russia have the stomach to escalate things further?
                Turkey has already vetoed it.

                It is just all theater.

                Everybody (including the Russians) knew Turkey would veto. That probably why both countries applied - they didn't really want to join NATO and occur the financial requirement, but were able to send a symbolic message to Putin.

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                • Originally posted by SB Shock View Post

                  Turkey has already vetoed it.

                  It is just all theater.

                  Everybody (including the Russians) knew Turkey would veto. That probably why both countries applied - they didn't really want to join NATO and occur the financial requirement, but were able to send a symbolic message to Putin.
                  They haven't vetoed it yet. I think things will get resolved. A fair question is whether NATO should have Turkey as a member.

                  Even if Russia had the stomach to escalate, I don't think they have the military capability.

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                  • Originally posted by ABC View Post

                    They haven't vetoed it yet.
                    I don't know what else you would say they are doing


                    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Thursday warned that Turkey will continue to block NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, citing security concerns.

                    “We told related friends that we will say no to Finnish and Swedish entry to NATO. We will continue in our path,” Erdogan said.

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                    • We’ll say no to love.

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                      • Turkey controls the Dardanelles...critical in this war. Erdogan in a bargaining position to get whatever he wants from NATO sorry to say.

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                        • https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia...ar-failures-uk

                          The War is getting worse for Russia. Hmm "Cover-ups and scapegoating". That sounds like Biden's blaming everything on Trump, Putin, etc.

                          The U.K. Ministry of Defense claimed "a culture of cover-ups and scapegoating" has plagued Russia’s military and security sectors.

                          "Many officials involved in the invasion of Ukraine will likely be increasingly distracted by efforts to avoid personal culpability for Russia’s operational setbacks," the ministry said.

                          Officials believe these organizational issues will put additional strain on Russia’s "centralized model of command and control" and will prompt military officials to defer decisions to those higher in the ranks.

                          "It will be difficult for Russia to regain initiative under these conditions," the ministry concluded.

                          Reports have increasingly surfaced that Moscow is laying the blame for its failures in Ukraine on its top officials, including army general Valery Gerasimov, who serves as the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces.

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                          • The early Ukrainian success has perhaps caused the media in the West to discount the sheer Russian advantage in numbers and equipment. At the moment Russia is militarily getting the upper hand in the Donbas presenting the real threat of encirclement for some Ukrainian forces. They are simply overwhelming the Ukrainian Donbas forces with their troop numbers and their advantage in rockets, artillery, tanks, and air power. Also more verification that they are not only using cluster bombs but also thermobaric weapons.

                            Personally beginning to believe that there is still a lack of resolve behind all the NATO and EU rhetoric about supporting the Ukraine... buy into Zelensky's disgust with the NATO powers, particularly Germany.

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                            • Originally posted by N Crestway View Post
                              The early Ukrainian success has perhaps caused the media in the West to discount the sheer Russian advantage in numbers and equipment. At the moment Russia is militarily getting the upper hand in the Donbas presenting the real threat of encirclement for some Ukrainian forces. They are simply overwhelming the Ukrainian Donbas forces with their troop numbers and their advantage in rockets, artillery, tanks, and air power. Also more verification that they are not only using cluster bombs but also thermobaric weapons.
                              Social media has given somewhat of a warped view of the ongoing battles. The King of Battle (artillery) is ruling the battlefield. The Russians don't have enough infantrymen, but they have much superior numbers of artillery and shells. They are making very slow progress in the Donbas, but it is progress.

                              Personally beginning to believe that there is still a lack of resolve behind all the NATO and EU rhetoric about supporting the Ukraine... buy into Zelensky's disgust with the NATO powers, particularly Germany.
                              I agree. U.S. wanted Germany to send anti-tank missiles to Ukraine that uses Israeli technology. Germany probably agreed to it because they knew Israel would reject it. Israel did veto it. They vetoed it because they are worried about angering Russia and Russia start harming Israeili security interests in Syria. Israel also doesn't trust the U.S. The U.S. leaked this week that Israel was involved in the assignation of a Iranian Colonel who was organizing assassinations of various targets through Europe including a U.S. General.

                              https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israe...uld-harm-trust


                              A leak to The New York Times about the assassination of a member of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps infuriated Israeli officials, with a parliament committee warning on Thursday that leaks could damage US-Israeli cooperation.
                              NATO just wants to punish Russia, but they don't want to go far enough where they risk being drawn into the conflict. I think they believe that time is on their side and that either

                              a. Economic Sanctions finally start having an impact on Russia (most estimates I have seen is this won't be until August/September)

                              b. Or Putin is removed from power and somebody comes to replace him who wants to normalize relations with the West (this is a big if in my opinion).

                              This is big roll of the dice in IMO. Either way, Russia is going to come out of this with more territory which they will be able to claim at least a small victory.

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                              • India Buying Up Cheap Sanctioned Russian Oil and Selling it to US and EU at Huge Profits

                                NEW DELHI, INDIA February 25: Flags on display at Hyderabad House as India and United States of America Summit meeting as part of President of USA Mr


                                India is buying up cheap sanctioned Russian oil, refining it, then selling it to the US and EU for huge profits, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal.The US has reluctantly given India permission to buy Russian oil because India has threatened to ditch their alliance with America and ally with Communist China if the US dares to sanction them.

                                While Americans and Europeans are being forced to pay record prices for gas as “the cost of standing up for freedom,” the free nation of India is buying oil from Russia for a whopping $35 off a barrel and selling it back to us in a hilarious arbitrage scheme.

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