Russia-Ukraine War

[WstateU]

My wife and I saw a film clip of this little boy walking alone, no one with in yards of him we both could not help but cry. We have grandsons his ageScreenshot_20220307-214751_Firefox.jpg

Heartbreaking.

[atlwsu]

My wife and I saw a film clip of this little boy walking alone, no one with in yards of him we both could not help but cry. We have grandsons his ageScreenshot_20220307-214751_Firefox.jpg

[shoxlax]

Sort of a catch-22. They weren't combatants until they were invaded. The casus belli for the Russians becomes "see how our are troops are being attacked in Ukraine?"

Mother****er, what are they doing in Ukraine?

Wolverines!!!

[wufan]

Ukraine actually lost out when they agreed (with Western Europe and President Clinton) to give up their nukes to Russia (in the agreement, the Western powers promised to support Ukraine if necessary) in the 90's so that the West wouldn't have another nuclear country to worry about. The West hasn't lived up to their part of the treaty. The trust doesn't go both ways.

While verbal promises were made to both Ukraine and Russia. These were not signed and were over 30 years ago. We broke promises to both of them.

[DUShock]

I’m not sure what you are saying. Are the Ukrainians (women and children too)the terrorists?

General Keane said that much of the strategy that Russia is trying to accomplish when they aim (and kill) at women, children, and multi-plex apartments/homes is to break the will of Ukrainians to fight back.

These people are grabbing a bag of personal belongings, and trying to get away. That’s all they have, and they are still getting hit by aimed missiles.

The Budapest Memo, originally included Russia as a guarantor, but the memo was revised in 2014 with the Putin’s invasion of the Crimea. The revised 2014 agreement include Germany and Japan as signers.

[1972Shocker]

IF TRUE? I assumed everybody knew this.............see Budapest Memorandum.

The Budapest Memorandum was a political agreement and not a formal treaty. But if a country gives assurances in writing it shouldn't have to be a formal treaty in order to stand behind. At this point, I think there is very little confidence in the world community that you can count on the United States to stand behind anything it says or does.

Besides it really was just a Memorandum of Assurances and not a formal treaty and it was 27 years ago. Things change. Once Russia finishes taking over Ukraine they will get their nukes back.

[ShockerPrez]

I’m not sure what you are saying. Are the Ukrainians (women and children too)the terrorists?

General Keane said that much of the strategy that Russia is trying to accomplish when they aim (and kill) at women, children, and multi-plex apartments/homes is to break the will of Ukrainians to fight back.

These people are grabbing a bag of personal belongings, and trying to get away. That’s all they have, and they are still getting hit by aimed missiles.

I think the terrorist line was that the person he knew quit when his employer wanted him to get friendly with terrorists, in an intelligence role related to N Ireland. Not relating to Ukraine. No one is insinuating that Ukraine's are terrorists whatsoever.

[pinstripers]

Scandalous and disappointing if true. I say if true because your information sources are usually tainted, to put it nicely.

The fact that China is standing idly by while Russia commits these atrocities should leave no doubt that they are our enemy. A united China Russia vs. the world would create a fairly formidable "Axis of Evil". If the powder keg blew, you could have Iran and N. Korea joining in with the festivities. Almost 4 nuclear powers and they're all ****ed in the head.

I'm fairly certain we can protect ourselves from nuclear attack, but we can't protect the rest of the free world which renders our defenses moot. If this all goes tits up, Israel, Japan, and S. Korea are immediate targets by their neighbors.

IF TRUE? I assumed everybody knew this.............see Budapest Memorandum.

[wichshock65]

Would Russia shutting off the spigot of the Nord Stream 1 be an act of war?

[C0|dB|00ded]

Ukraine actually lost out when they agreed (with Western Europe and President Clinton) to give up their nukes to Russia (in the agreement, the Western powers promised to support Ukraine if necessary) in the 90's so that the West wouldn't have another nuclear country to worry about. The West hasn't lived up to their part of the treaty. The trust doesn't go both ways.

Scandalous and disappointing if true. I say if true because your information sources are usually tainted, to put it nicely.

The fact that China is standing idly by while Russia commits these atrocities should leave no doubt that they are our enemy. A united China Russia vs. the world would create a fairly formidable "Axis of Evil". If the powder keg blew, you could have Iran and N. Korea joining in with the festivities. Almost 4 nuclear powers and they're all ****ed in the head.

I'm fairly certain we can protect ourselves from nuclear attack, but we can't protect the rest of the free world which renders our defenses moot. If this all goes tits up, Israel, Japan, and S. Korea are immediate targets by their neighbors.

[Shockm]

This is absolutely true. One of my college professors worked as a low level intelligence agent for the NSA as a grad student in Ireland. This was in the mid 80s and his job was to read all news on Northern Ireland and send it to his handler.

He quit when they tried to get him friendly with known terrorists.

Point being, this type of intelligence gathering is still performed by governments all over the world.

I’m not sure what you are saying. Are the Ukrainians (women and children too)the terrorists?

General Keane said that much of the strategy that Russia is trying to accomplish when they aim (and kill) at women, children, and multi-plex apartments/homes is to break the will of Ukrainians to fight back.

These people are grabbing a bag of personal belongings, and trying to get away. That’s all they have, and they are still getting hit by aimed missiles.

[Shockm]

Ukraine actually lost out when they agreed (with Western Europe and President Clinton) to give up their nukes to Russia (in the agreement, the Western powers promised to support Ukraine if necessary) in the 90's so that the West wouldn't have another nuclear country to worry about. The West hasn't lived up to their part of the treaty. The trust doesn't go both ways.

[wufan]

At the minimum. This is for the world consumption. Ukrainians on the ground already know what's up in their town and what they are planning. That's as good as it's gonna get for them, I'm afraid. Anything being televised further is just for our knowledge and can only be used to alert Russians and put in their minds that everyone is fair game. Whereas if their had been any reservations before, it's gone.

It's easier to show a 19 year old private a video from his propaganda officer of Sergei and say, "See Misha, you need not worry about Ukraine civilian they kill you". As opposed to Misha's humanity hesitating at first, then getting torched.

It's not about justifying Russia. It's Russia using it as well to sway their soldiers to do the bad.

I just don't think it's helping Ukraine in the end.

This is absolutely true. One of my college professors worked as a low level intelligence agent for the NSA as a grad student in Ireland. This was in the mid 80s and his job was to read all news on Northern Ireland and send it to his handler.

He quit when they tried to get him friendly with known terrorists.

Point being, this type of intelligence gathering is still performed by governments all over the world.

[ShockerPrez]

I get it. So you're just saying they should show Sergei in some undisclosed location in some undisclosed city, whoopin ass, and not giving enough info to pinpoint his location?

At the minimum. This is for the world consumption. Ukrainians on the ground already know what's up in their town and what they are planning. That's as good as it's gonna get for them, I'm afraid. Anything being televised further is just for our knowledge and can only be used to alert Russians and put in their minds that everyone is fair game. Whereas if their had been any reservations before, it's gone.

It's easier to show a 19 year old private a video from his propaganda officer of Sergei and say, "See Misha, you need not worry about Ukraine civilian they kill you". As opposed to Misha's humanity hesitating at first, then getting torched.

It's not about justifying Russia. It's Russia using it as well to sway their soldiers to do the bad.

I just don't think it's helping Ukraine in the end.

[Kung Wu]

Nothing I've said justifies Russia's invasion. It is about the continued propaganda showing where and how Ukraine's are planning to fight. It only gives Russia more intelligence to neutralize their resistance before it can be implemented.

There is a difference between, "Russia has been met with civilian defenses in town X" and "Here's Sergei, he's been making molotov cocktails instead of vodka in preperation of the Russians coming".

Well, sergei and his 300 bombs are now gone, in addition to the 15 houses next door as Russia sent 45 shells his way. Because the Russian intelligence officer had a tip on the news.

Now, maybe Sergei was toast anyway, but no need to advertise his actions and ensure it.

I get it. So you're just saying they should show Sergei in some undisclosed location in some undisclosed city, whoopin ass, and not giving enough info to pinpoint his location?