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Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded
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That's an interesting opinion -
What would a good job by the president look like?
How many dead? How many infections? Economic impact?
What are we judging our response against?
Mind you, we have a country that covers 3000 miles across, 300 million people with 300 million wants and desires, millions of businesses, 50 individual states with sovereignty over a good chunk of peoples lives that they may not be willing to just cede to a federal government run by a guy that half of them despise, thousands of cultures, thousands of healthcare facilities, etc, etc, etc.
And not to mention the fact that in this country 100% of everything is politicized, because of course it is....
I'm not saying we should have not taken any precautions, but let's get real here.
"When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!Comment
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Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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I’m still not “tired” yet. It’s too darn entertaining...
“Joe Hiden’”
"You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"Comment
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Bipartisan? 1 month after they voted to impeach, based upon half-assed leak intel.?Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
The thing is, your President would have gladly included any and all relevant parties, most probably. But ain't no resisting Snowflake anywhere gonna' try to be an honest ally of the President and or Country. #Resist is real. Just look around you now.
Last edited by ShockingButTrue; September 2, 2020, 09:35 PM.Comment
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I didn't vote for Trump, probably won't this time, I'm looking for a palatable Independent. Last time it was Gary Johnson. While Trump is my last resort if nobody appears, there is no way in Hell I'll vote for Biden. Guy's dementia is getting worse by the day, might be completely gone by November 3rd.
I'm still shocked that the democrats screwed this up this badly. They had to this thing won, how did this happen?There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.Comment
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Exactly! Cold is living in a fantasy land if he thinks the President would ever have been allowed to put together a truly bi-partisan task force. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. That has been evident during his entire first term. Between Covid, riots/looting, and outright foaming at the mouth hatred for Trump, I really think people have lost their damn minds. There is no longer an ability to think openly and freely.Originally posted by ShockingButTrue View PostComment
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All they had to do was not be crazy! They couldn’t do it. I’d have voted for Joe Biden from ten years ago and a moderate democratic platform, but they had to go all crazy conspiracy and try to subvert the election results in every possible way.Originally posted by MoValley John View Post
They’re going to replace Joe. It’s a matter of time.
Trump has done some good things. He’s done a lot of bad things, but few if any of the bad have had any impact on my life. The Dems getting in bed with post modern philosophy has me voting for Trump as that philosophy has the potential to destroy this country. No third party for me this time around.Livin the dreamComment
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Sufficiently proven........Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post
I beg to differ brother.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/uk...ine-2020-08-26
Sweden has the ninth highest number of COVID-related deaths per capita in the world, at 57.16 per 100,000 people. The U.K. has the fifth highest, at 62.53 per 100,000 people.
What’s more, the U.K. has a fatality rate of 12.5%, second only to Italy’s 13.4%. Sweden has a fatality rate of 6.9%. To put those figures in context, the U.S. has had 55.57 COVID-related deaths per 100,000 people and a fatality rate of 3.1%, less than half the rate of Sweden.Boris Johnson, the prime minister who himself was hospitalized with coronavirus and ultimately recovered, was late to issue those orders and introduce a travel ban. One study released in June estimated that 34% of detected U.K. transmissions arrived from Spain, France, Italy and elsewhere abroad.
That same study concluded that one-third of cases in the U.K. occurred in March, while others said the U.K., along with other countries, underestimated the number of asymptomatic people who were spreading the virus without realizing it.
What’s more, like the U.S., the U.K. did not introduce an early large-scale testing and contact-tracing strategy. All of these factors led to the U.K. placing among the global top ranks, alongside Sweden, for coronavirus-related deaths per capita.
Sweden, meanwhile, failed to protect its elderly population, who make up the majority of those who died from COVID-19 there. This was a major misstep in its herd-immunity strategy, which speaks to the difficulty of applying an idealistic, laboratory model of separating the infected from the most vulnerable to the real world: Sweden only banned care-home visits at the end of March.
It kept most of its schools open, despite children being among the most likely to contract the virus and transmit without displaying symptoms. The country reported its highest death tally in 150 years in the first half of this year.
Despite these efforts, and its relatively small size compared to the U.K. and the U.S., the country is not even close to achieving herd immunity. In an interview with the Observer newspaper in London this month, Anders Tegnell, an epidemiologist involved in managing Sweden’s pandemic response, claimed that up to 30% of the country’s population could be immune.
But others say that even accounting for those who are asymptomatic, that is a wildly optimistic estimate, and, as Tegnell himself acknowledged, “it’s very difficult to draw a good sample from the population, because, obviously, the level of immunity differs enormously between different age groups between different parts of Stockholm and so on.”
It’s likely even that 30% level is a long way off from achieving the goal. This month, the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine published a paper titled “Sweden’s prized herd immunity is nowhere in sight.” Epidemiologists estimate that at least 70% of the population attaining immunity is necessary to achieve herd immunity.
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/onli...virus-response
All Luck and No Virtue: Sweden’s Coronavirus Response
Sweden bet on both national character and herd immunity, hoping they would complement each other. Months later, the country has little testing and one of the highest rates of cases.I come from Italy, a place where it is hard to find two people who agree with each other (to borrow Alexis de Tocqueville’s description of nineteenth-century France), a place where the government is blamed for the rain. My feeling of displacement was therefore profound in those early days of March and April. I could not rejoice at my luck for having landed in Sweden and being able to enjoy freedom as if there were no pandemic, and not only because my family and friends were on the other side of the wall. Because what I saw around me, in Sweden, was not freedom.
Months later, what I see is still not freedom as I understand it. Instead, Swedes interiorize norms and rituals and act as if they were free. The country is famous for its so-called consensus culture, but people generally begin in agreement rather than ending there. I argued in the Boston Review that this characterizes an organicist society, where individual choice and public choice perfectly overlap and dissent is expelled; where twenty eminent scientists can publish an editorial against the Swedish approach in one of the country’s two flagship newspapers and have almost no impact on public debate or policy.
But there is something else I have seen in these past months: denial. At the beginning this was to be expected; it was the same in Italy, France, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Coronavirus was always someone else’s virus—the Lombardy virus, the Chinese virus, the Italian virus. As infections spread, people got busy drawing distinctions: Europe is not China, they said, the United States is not Europe, China is not Italy. Some countries notably went the other way and learned from similarity: Greece, for example, modeled its policy on its Mediterranean neighbor Italy. In Scandinavia, Norway, Denmark, and Finland decided to lock down early, apparently judging that pandemics trump national character, rituals, and geography, especially as societies become more interconnected.
But Sweden went its own way. It decided to bet on both national character and herd immunity, hoping they would complement each other. The prevailing attitude was that the virus might run faster among those who did not conform to the customary Swedish independence between generations, or those who favored crowded venues to the solitude of the forest and privacy of their docks—but that would help establish some immunity among the larger population. Interviewed by the Financial Times at the beginning of May, Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist and architect of the Swedish no-lockdown approach, was serene: “In the autumn there will be a second wave,” he said. By then, “Sweden will have a high level of immunity and the number of cases will probably be quite low.”
The virus did hit some groups more than others. As in other places, it hit the old, the weak, the ones with few options. In Sweden, many migrants and refugees find work in essential jobs such as healthcare and nursing facilities. Without the necessary PPE or the option of staying home to care for sick family members, they became vectors; they were at greater risk of contracting the virus themselves as they continued to interact with colleagues at work without being provided masks. Testing has never been the default option in Sweden, even for healthcare workers. According to Our World in Data in mid-June—at the height of its testing effort—Sweden was administering only twenty-seven tests per 1,000 people, compared to 180 in Iceland, ninety-eight in Denmark, and forty-seven in Norway.
The result? A disease that was still spreading in Sweden at the end of June, even as it had been contained elsewhere. The country’s seven-day new infection average on June 25 was 1,275 cases per day, compared to forty-two in Denmark and eleven in Norway. This number has since declined, but so has testing, which was drastically curtailed in early July. And the dead stay dead. As of August 25, COVID-19 had already killed fifty-seven of every 100,000 Swedes, compared to fifty-four out of 100,000 in the United States, eleven out of every 100,000 in Germany and two out of every 100,000 in Greece.
Confronted with this grim picture, Tegnell continued to defend the Swedish approach, conceding only that things went worse than he had “hoped.” This was the very same expert who claimed all along to be basing his policies on scientific evidence and mathematical models. It turned out he just banked on luck—and lost. “If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today,” he told Swedish Radio on June 3, “I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done.” He insisted that the basic strategy was sound, although there was “potential for improvement,” adding that whereas other countries introduced many measures at once, not knowing which of them was going to work, Sweden was right to run its experiment. Otherwise, Tegnell insisted, “you don’t really know which of the measures you took had the best effect.” It was left to Jimmie Åkesson, leader of the far-right nationalist Sweden Democrats, to voice his “astonishment.” “For months critics have been consistently dismissed,” Åkesson tweeted. “Sweden has done everything right, the rest of the world has done it wrong. And now suddenly this.”
The failure of Tegnell’s approach is not really a matter of bad luck. If anything, Sweden was far luckier than Italy, Spain, or Germany. The virus reached the country relatively late. Swedes had ample opportunity to prepare and take steps to contain its spread. They had the three great assets of time, money, and organization—assets they could have used to stock up on PPE, set up treatment and quarantine facilities, and test, track, and treat as the World Health Organization advised. They had knowledge and expertise in spades, and they had a trusting and compliant populace. Perhaps most important, they had the example of other countries to learn from. If Sweden did not see Italy—then the epicenter of the crisis in Europe—as a useful model, it could have used Denmark, which locked down early even while acknowledging the uncertainty of such measures. As Danish Health Minister Magnus Heunicke said in March, “We have no evidence that everything we are doing works. But we would rather take a step too far today than find in three weeks that we have done too little.” Instead the Swedish government decided to do almost nothing and just hope for the best.Better is indeed a subjective term. My opinion of better would be: To have confidence that you followed the science and gave your best effort in proportion to the threat - erring slightly on the side of "overreaction" as the good doctor has oft stated. There are countries out there that have this confidence as well as the results to know they reacted appropriately.Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post
Trump bucked the science at every turn and in doing so created an entire civilization of ignorant Covid Deniers. Many deaths resulted because of it. Many deaths are yet to come. With these deaths come economic disruption as governments continue to look for additional ways to stop the carnage. Because you just can't ignore thousands of deaths a week.
Sweden ****ed up, but if they had the population densities and minorities of America, it would have been FUBAR to put it mildly. As I've stated before, Sweden's culture of anonymity is ready-made for a pandemic. They have inherent herd immunity in many respects with their lonely ways of life.
Your theory is that we should flash expose the entire American civilization to the virus because then we'll snuff out the transmission like dropping TNT down into a gushing oil well. Well... with some asymptomatics shedding the virus for up to 3 mos. and a lack of understanding of what/when shedding virus is replicable... this is armchair epidemiology at its finest. And by the way, we already had our "herd" experiment in NYC. The virus had a month and a half to spread at will. Do you remember what happened? You would like to see that happen in the rest of the major cities in America? Sweden has a culture advantage, a population density advantage, and a white man advantage. Ever ask yourself why the Midwest has been spared so far? It's population density and minorities. Minorities die at 3x+ the rate of whites. We realized that around the same time Trump wanted to push to reopen. But don't get me started down that conspiracy theory road... things could get messy around here. :PComment
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This is all I hear when I see Cold's posts anymore...
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Dude, I don't read any of your long winded or heavy quoted posts.Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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Trump's greatest asset is his ability to brand things and people. Hidin' Biden is very strong!Originally posted by WstateU View PostI’m still not “tired” yet. It’s too darn entertaining...
“Joe Hiden’”
But just look a little deeper at what the nickname implies: Joe's hidin'... because he's scared... of a virus that is not threat...
Still poisoning the well on a daily basis. Not the place or the time. He should be doing anything and everything to minimize his administration's exposure to the pandemic's outcome. But he just keeps on diggin'. That is his nature - to repeat his version of reality until it becomes reality. If he's able to do it with Covid, it will be his finest illusion.Comment
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So, I quickly go check on the source of your response. Let's see......Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
Dissentmagazine.org
“A pillar of leftist intellectual provocation”
—New York Times
"Dissent is a quarterly magazine of politics and ideas. Founded by Irving Howe and Lewis Coser in 1954, it quickly established itself as one of America’s leading intellectual journals and a mainstay of the democratic left".
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Lmao.Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
You think Hiden is hiding out because of the virus?
Lmao.Deuces Valley.
... No really, deuces.
________________
"Enjoy the ride."
- a smart manComment
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