Coronavirus 2019-nCov: Political Thread

[C0|dB|00ded]

Yes, I keep seeing people claim that it isn’t aerosolized, but there are many scientists that disagree, and these aren’t fringe whackaloons. It is really an open scientific debate. The transmissibility, despite masks, suggests that it IS aerosolized. It isn’t known, and is truly the crux of the mask debate.

Your statement is confusing. It IS aerosolized, aka airborne, aka < 5 μm, aka able to infect you from across the room with the right air currents/humidity/exposure time/etc.

N95 filtration is defined as being able to filter 95% or more of 0.3 μm particles.

Now step off my nucka. You're about to enter the danger zone!

[dregn]

Can be filtered out of what and how?

As I said, my intent is not to get into a debate on effectiveness of masks or any of the other multitude of items in here. Just pointing out the scientific fact that showing gases/vapor make it through a mask is not proof a physical particulent can pass through. To argue otherwise is going against science and simply done to try and bias people towards a desire point of view.

Now if you can show the water sublimates on the inside of the mask and then passes through as a liquid with almost no differential pressure its a different story.

[wufan]

One other thing that that would lead you to believe that it travels outside of water vapor that no one is talking about. The virus is killed by UV light. If the virus is entrapped in water vapor, UV light should be refracted and shouldn’t damage the virus. The fact that it does in the presence of UV suggests it travels outside of a liquid vector.

[wufan]

Your statement is confusing. It IS aerosolized, aka airborne, aka < 5 μm, aka able to infect you from across the room with the right air currents/humidity/exposure time/etc.

N95 filtration is defined as being able to filter 95% or more of 0.3 μm particles.

Now step off my nucka. You're about to enter the danger zone!

Aerosolized means it is transmitted without water droplets. It means that the particle is 0.1 um in size and is not stopped 95% of the time if you have a 0.3 um filter.

[wufan]

As I said, my intent is not to get into a debate on effectiveness of masks or any of the other multitude of items in here. Just pointing out the scientific fact that showing gases/vapor make it through a mask is not proof a physical particulent can pass through. To argue otherwise is going against science and simply done to try and bias people towards a desire point of view.

Now if you can show the water sublimates on the inside of the mask and then passes through as a liquid with almost no differential pressure its a different story.

No, it’s not arguing against science. You don’t understand it and reject it out of ideology. You say, it can be filtered, therefore it is. What mechanism? There are certain size particles that will not go through certain masks and certain sizes that will. I do analytical chemistry, and part of that is particle chemistry. The size of the Covid-19 particle is such that masks don’t protect against it by simple filtration. There are other proposed mechanisms that might work, but that science isn’t established. A clean room with a 1 foot thick HEPA filter still allows 2 particles per cubic meter that are as large as C19. I measure this every 6 minutes at 50 sites 24 hours a day. Is an n95 more effective than a 1 foot thick HEPA filter?

It doesn’t have to go through the mask if it goes around it. Wouldn’t you agree?

[wufan]

As I said, my intent is not to get into a debate on effectiveness of masks or any of the other multitude of items in here. Just pointing out the scientific fact that showing gases/vapor make it through a mask is not proof a physical particulent can pass through. To argue otherwise is going against science and simply done to try and bias people towards a desire point of view.

Now if you can show the water sublimates on the inside of the mask and then passes through as a liquid with almost no differential pressure its a different story.

I can’t believe you tried to use science as your appeal to authority when you understand so little.

[dregn]

My only appeal was that seeing your breath on the other side of a mask in cold air does not demonstrate anything about it's ability to filter. What about that is incorrect?

[Atxshoxfan]

All this argument about the effectiveness of masks are fruitless. Everyone has made up their mind.
Cold, I appreciate your your thoughts of wearing a mask for me, as you stated, but please don't bother , as I won't do the same for you.
So you best stay locked away somewhere safe. I prefer to live with the risk.

For those who think this mask thing will end this year. I highly doubt it, you will hear so many media scare stories over the rest of the year and into next, that you will see the believe science crowd wearing masks for years to come.
I just don't understand why they worry so much though. AOC says science is projecting that the earth will be uninhabitable in 10 yrs.
I'm so scared of living through this climate change, I welcome the early exit by covid-19.
They say burning to death is the worst death you can have. Thank you science for the warning?

[Kung Wu]

My only appeal was that seeing your breath on the other side of a mask in cold air does not demonstrate anything about it's ability to filter. What about that is incorrect?

I didn't listen to the video, so I have no idea what the guy is saying or claiming. From someone's point of view of just watching the video without listening, the video highlights how disgustingly bad a _non-tight, non-form fitting_ mask (like the surgical masks you see EVERYWHERE) is at redirecting a massive percent of the airflow via the gaps, vs through the mask. 90% of the air you see condensing never even went through the mask.

[dregn]

...You say, it can be filtered, therefore it is...

Please quote where I said covid particles can be filtered by masks? I specifically said atl in my first post I had no intention to get into that argument.

I agree if the mask you where allows most the air you breath to go around then it is doing very little to no filtration of any particles that can be suspended in air.

[wufan]

My only appeal was that seeing your breath on the other side of a mask in cold air does not demonstrate anything about it's ability to filter. What about that is incorrect?

1. If it isn’t traveling through the mask, but around it, what good would filtration do?
2. You can’t see C19. It is much smaller than the visible condensate. If visible condensate is traveling outside the mask that is much larger, then smaller particles would also be traveling through it.
3. We know the ability of an n95 mask filtration. It is 0.3 um. We know the size of C19. It is 0.1 um. If it isn’t filtering via size exclusion, how is it filtering?

Proposed mechanisms of filtration:
1. Size exclusion due to water droplets. While C19 certainly travels on water droplets, it is likely that it also travels without.
2. electrostatic charge. This would be the most likely. RNA is negatively charged and is attracted to positively charged particles. This works for a brief period of time as the charge is quickly lost during wear.

There is zero scientific doubt that some C19 particles are filtered via a mask. There is also zero scientific doubt that some are not. n95 masks are tested with 0.3 um particles. The filtration effectiveness of 0.1 um particles is not known. The number of viral particles that are required to be infectious or that are expelled with a single breathe are totally unknown.

So, why on earth do you believe it is effective?

[wufan]

All this argument about the effectiveness of masks are fruitless. Everyone has made up their mind.
Cold, I appreciate your your thoughts of wearing a mask for me, as you stated, but please don't bother , as I won't do the same for you.
So you best stay locked away somewhere safe. I prefer to live with the risk.

For those who think this mask thing will end this year. I highly doubt it, you will hear so many media scare stories over the rest of the year and into next, that you will see the believe science crowd wearing masks for years to come.
I just don't understand why they worry so much though. AOC says science is projecting that the earth will be uninhabitable in 10 yrs.
I'm so scared of living through this climate change, I welcome the early exit by covid-19.
They say burning to death is the worst death you can have. Thank you science for the warning?

But there is really TONS of science that exists around this, and TONS more that is being done. We could really answer this question if we wanted to.

[wufan]

Please quote where I said covid particles can be filtered by masks? I specifically said atl in my first post I had no intention to get into that argument.

“Just pointing out the scientific fact that showing gases/vapor make it through a mask is not proof a physical particulent can pass through”

What were you trying to say here? Do you know what a particulate is?

[dregn]

“Just pointing out the scientific fact that showing gases/vapor make it through a mask is not proof a physical particulent can pass through”

What were you trying to say here? Do you know what a particulate is?

Yes, but particulents can be a huge amount of sizes. I was not talking to covid, it was a generalization. My whole point was the vapor/gas can pass through prior to sublimation. If it sublimates before passing through the mask it may or may not filter it depending on the size of particle and effectiveness of mask material. Vapor has no physical size, it is gaseous.

[wufan]

Yes, but particulents can be a huge amount of sizes. I was not talking to covid, it was a generalization. My whole point was the vapor/gas can pass through prior to sublimation. If it sublimates before passing through the mask it may or may not filter it depending on the size of particle and effectiveness of mask material. Vapor has no physical size, it is gaseous.

You missed the argument. The argument was that particles much larger than C19 escape the mask. It doesn’t matter whether or not they wet through the filter, they became airborne. If particles much larger than C19 are not stopped from exiting, then why is a mask effective?

This is specifically about Covid. Why were you not talking about Covid?