WBB - Shocker Hall of Fame Members & Candidates

[Shoxtastic]

Need to run the table in St. Louis and get a win in the NCAA and that should all but seal the first retired women's jersey in the arena.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

Need to run the table in St. Louis and get a win in the NCAA and that should all but seal the first retired women's jersey in the arena.

Amen!

[1972Shocker]

Need to run the table in St. Louis and get a win in the NCAA and that should all but seal the first retired women's jersey in the arena.

Maybe, but if they use the same All-American standard as they have for the men that may not happen. I don't know if Honorable Mention All-American honors satisfy that criteria or not. Cliff Levingston was named 3rd team AA by Basketball Times, a rather obscure publication but that qualified him to have his jersey retired.

BTW, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that standard but it is what it is although it's possible they could waive that standard from women's BB but I think they should at least be consistent.

WSU has never had an All-American in its Women's program. We have had 2 Academic All-Americans. Jenny Parr, 1985-86 (3rd Team) and Marcy Sudbeck, 2008-09 (2nd Team). That, of course, has nor bearings on retiring jersey's.

The Shocks have only had one other Valley Player of the Year. That was Kareema Williams in 1991-92 and that was the only year she played for the Shocks. That's one reason I was so upset when Alex got robbed of that honor last year.

Haleigh Lankster, in 2011-12, was the only Shocker prior to Alex to win the Valley Defensive Player of the Year. Alex has won the last 2 Valley Defensive POY titles.

So a strong team finish certainly will not hurt anything I'm not sure how influential that would actually be in Alex having her Jersey retired. Of course, how she plays in these remaining games could influence her post season honors that could influence having her Jersey retired.

[1972Shocker]

The AP names 3 All-American teams with 5 members to each of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team. That is pretty select company and a very high standard to meet. All 15 members in 2014 were from P-5 schools.

I counted 34 Honorable Mentions. Of those 10 were from Non P-5 schools.

Alex's chances of breaking into the Top 15 are probably very thin. She will get less credit than she does in the Valley for her versatility and she probably will be hurt by playing in the 19th ranked conference in he country. She had as good a year last year as she has had this year and received no All-American Honors.

[1972Shocker]

Bob Lutz quote:

Harden is the WSU women’s team version of VanVleet, Baker and Cotton rolled into one. She’s an outstanding scorer, rebounder and passer who wants to win an NCAA Tournament game before her career ends.

One thing Alex has been doing this year that Fred, Ron and Tekele have never done that I recall is handle the center jump duties at the beginning of the game. That's not really a big deal but how many point guards handle that duty on a regular basis. The thing is she has been pretty successful at it winning more tips than she loses.

[Shoxtastic]

The standards are different for men and women All-American status. If they win a NCAA game, that should absolutely seal the deal.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

The standards are different for men and women All-American status. If they win a NCAA game, that should absolutely seal the deal.

Their flight to Evansville was cancelled yesterday due to weather, so hopefully they actually make it to Evansville today in time to loosen up and play their 7:00 p.m. game.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

[QUOTE=1972Shocker;548806]Updated Through Sunday, March 1st:

Alex Harden's Combo Scores By Year:
Freshman - 398/33 games = 12.06 per game (9 starts)
Sophomore - 780/34 games = 22.94 per game (28 starts)
Junior - 1,030/33 games = 31.21 per game (33 starts)
Senior - 818/27 games = 30.30 per game (27 starts) and counting
Career - 3,026/127 games = 23.83 per game (96 starts) and counting

Alex Harden's Career Totals by Category (Current Rank in Shocker Record Books):
Points - 1,593 (#2)
Rebounds - 646 (#10)
Assists - 424 (#3)
Steals - 255 (#2)
Blocks - 108 (#5)
Combined Total = 3,026 (#1)
Games Played - 127 (#6)
Average Combo Score/Game - 23.83 (#5)

Games Won - 93 (#2)

Kelsey Jacobs has played in 124 of the 128 games that past 4 seasons plus she played in 9 games her true Freshman year before going down with season ending stress fracture and getting a medical redshirt. Kelsey only played about 7 minutes a game in those 9 games but the team was 6-3. By my calculations Kelsey has played in 96 wins as a Lady Shocker which makes her the winningest Lady Shocker in history.)

BTW, Kelsey Jacob's current career Combo Score is 1,545/133 = 11.61 per game.

KELSEY HAS PASSED HER FORMER TEAMMATE, JAZ GORDON FOR 3RD ALL TIME IN BLOCKED SHOTS. I BELIEVE KELSEY, ALEX AND BONNER SHOULD ALL BE ON THE ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM. WHAT A THREE HEADED MONSTER! HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT A VERY LIKED TEAM, SO I WON'T BE SURPRISED BY ANY ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM VOTING EVEN IF WE DO WIN OUR REMAINING TWO GAME

[1972Shocker]

The standards are different for men and women All-American status. If they win a NCAA game, that should absolutely seal the deal.

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other but I wasn't talking about the standards for All-American status. I was talking about the criteria for having your jersey retired. For the men it requires being named an All-American. For the women I have no idea since we have never had an All-American before and we have never had a woman player's jersey retired.

If you are saying that the standards for WSU to retire a woman player's jersey are different than for the men I would be grateful if you could share what those standards are or provide a link to that information. Thanks.

[Shoxtastic]

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other but I wasn't talking about the standards for All-American status. I was talking about the criteria for having your jersey retired. For the men it requires being named an All-American. For the women I have no idea since we have never had an All-American before and we have never had a woman player's jersey retired.

If you are saying that the standards for WSU to retire a woman player's jersey are different than for the men I would be grateful if you could share what those standards are or provide a link to that information. Thanks.

Standards was probably not the best way to put it. With the women having an extra scholarship, the chances of us having an All-American on the women's side isn't nearly as good as the men. The men have probably twice as many All-American teams as well, as do the women. Being elected an All-American on the women's side is much harder, so to me the standards should be different for retiring a jersey. If they win a NCAA game, Harden should be the first.

[1972Shocker]

Standards was probably not the best way to put it. With the women having an extra scholarship, the chances of us having an All-American on the women's side isn't nearly as good as the men. The men have probably twice as many All-American teams as well, as do the women. Being elected an All-American on the women's side is much harder, so to me the standards should be different for retiring a jersey. If they win a NCAA game, Harden should be the first.

Those are valid points. And while a good argument that the standards for retiring a woman player's jersey should be different the question I still have is are they different and if they are what are they. My guess is no one at WSU has ever felt the need to give this much thought before. It would be good question for the Coach's radio show. While Jody probably could not answer that it would at least put the subject on the table. It would be a good question for Mike Kennedy also maybe in the pregame show.

[1972Shocker]

Alex vs Evansville II: 15 points + 4 rebounds + 2 assists + 3 steals + 1 block = 25 total

Career-To-Date: 3,026 + 25 = 3,051

All-Time List (In order of total HOF score):

1. 2011-15 Alex Harden (3,051/128 Games = 23.84/Game)
2. 2000-04 Angela Buckner (2,956/107 Games = 27.63/Game) *
3. 1982-86 Allison Daniel (2,817/110 Games = 25.61/Game) *
4. 1998-02 Jennifer Kaczka (2,798/114 Games = 24.54/Game) *
5. 1996-00 Lateesha Hill (2,686/114 = 23.56/Game)
6. 1992-96 Kim Evans (2,632/110 = 23.93/Game)
7. 1977-81 Terry O'Bryon (2,583/109 = 23.70/Game)
8. 2004-08 Kiki Stephens (2,509/115 = 21.82/Game)
9. 2009-13 Jessica Diamond (2,421/130 = 18.62/Game)
10. 1979-83 Theresa Dreiling (2,350/114 = 20.61/Game)
11. 1991-95 Ann Hollingsworth (2,314/111 = 20.85/Game)
12. 1980-84 Lisa Hodgson (2,288/112 Games = 20.43/Game) *
13. 2008-12 Haleigh Lankster (2,280/126 = 18.10/Game)
14. 2003-07 Antionette Wells (2,239/110 = 20.35/Game)
15. 1993-97 Tootie Shaw (2,176/111 = 19.60/Game)

* Shocker Hall of Fame Member - Also see initial post for this thread for a discussion or Shocker Hall of Famer Marguerite Keeley who played in 44 games over 2 seasons for the Shocks and averaged 20.8 PPG and 12.5 RPG in her career.

HOF Score = Career Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks

[1972Shocker]

Updated Through Thursday, March 5th:

Alex Harden's Combo Scores By Year:
Freshman - 398/33 games = 12.06 per game (9 starts)
Sophomore - 780/34 games = 22.94 per game (28 starts)
Junior - 1,030/33 games = 31.21 per game (33 starts)
Senior - 843/28 games = 30.11 per game (28 starts) and counting
Career - 3,051/128 games = 23.84 per game (98 starts) and counting

Alex Harden's Career Totals by Category (Current Rank in Shocker Record Books):
Points - 1,608 (#2)
Rebounds - 650 (#10)
Assists - 426 (#3)
Steals - 258 (#2)
Blocks - 109 (#5)
Combined Total = 3,051 (#1)
Games Played - 128 (#5-T)
Average Combo Score/Game - 23.84 (#5)

Games Won - 94 (#2)

Kelsey Jacobs has played in 125 of the 129 games that past 4 seasons plus she played in 9 games her true Freshman year before going down with season ending stress fracture and getting a medical redshirt. Kelsey only played about 7 minutes a game in those 9 games but the team was 6-3. By my calculations Kelsey has played in 97 wins as a Lady Shocker which makes her the winningest Lady Shocker in history.)

Kelsey Jacob's current career Combo Score is 1,560/134 = 11.64 per game.

Jamillah Bonner's current career Combo Score is 1,286/60 = 21.43 per game.

[The Mad Hatter]

It is also worth adding that Alex's career shooting percentage is .474 overall (#14 in WSU history) and .496 from 2-point range. The only player in the top 10 in scoring at WSU with a higher career shooting percentage is Jennifer Kaczka.

Alex also has a career freethrow percentage of .798, which is 3rd all time and just .001 out of a tie fro 2nd all time at WSU. She is also 3rd in freethrow makes and 5th in attempts.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

It is also worth adding that Alex's career shooting percentage is .474 overall (#14 in WSU history) and .496 from 2-point range. The only player in the top 10 in scoring at WSU with a higher career shooting percentage is Jennifer Kaczka.

Alex also has a career freethrow percentage of .798, which is 3rd all time and just .001 out of a tie fro 2nd all time at WSU. She is also 3rd in freethrow makes and 5th in attempts.

Whatever awards, jersey retirements, hall of fame, etc. Alex is the the best player ever for WSU and one of the best to ever play in Valley and one of the best in the country this year.