Corey Washington 6'6 F Saint Peter's Transfer a Shocker!

[ShockTalk]

What if the 6'6" players are better than Pohto? Or end up at least being just as good? It's more than just being tall.

Pohto played smaller than he is many times. Especially defensively

Maybe you should ask Mills those questions as Pohto was 4th in minutes played. Our 6'6" guys did play a lot of 4 last year, but that's usually not ideal. At this point, they also have to be the backup at the 5. If we are to improve, we're going to need higher quality play at the 4 / backup 5 than last year.

[vtshocker]

Dalen was 6’6 and got rebounds like he was 7 foot. Rashard Kelly was the same way. Not concerned about 6’6 player at the 4. It’s all about the hustle and anticipation

[shockerfan]

Maybe you should ask Mills those questions as Pohto was 4th in minutes played. Our 6'6" guys did play a lot of 4 last year, but that's usually not ideal. At this point, they also have to be the backup at the 5. If we are to improve, we're going to need higher quality play at the 4 / backup 5 than last year.

I still don't think that is the only way to improve. Unless we assume no one gets better this offseason as well. And maybe with more time Quincy Acy can work with some of the smaller big guys to be better at other positions. He knows how to play PF at 6'7". Plus I feel we got better at PG which is even more vital to improving next year IMO. Again, the bar is low in terms of what "improving" means. Will we win the conference as it stands? No I probably wouldn't pick us to lol.

Let's see what the product looks like before we start saying we have definitely not improved. Its much more likely we improve some vs get much worse. Let's see how coach plans to utilize a small lineup since he has a while to figure it out.

I would prefer we have more quality bigs...that goes without saying. But that doesn't mean we can't improve without them. (AGAIN, LOW BAR AND ALL)

[Stickboy46]

Dalen was 6’6 and got rebounds like he was 7 foot. Rashard Kelly was the same way. Not concerned about 6’6 player at the 4. It’s all about the hustle and anticipation

Its not about a 6'6 player at the 4. It's about a 6'5 player at the 4 while a 6'6 player is playing the 5. QB can't play all 40 minutes

[asiseeit]

I'll just go ahead and date myself. I was there when the "roundhouse" opened. Maybe it's because I've experienced our great past programs first hand that my expectations are set higher than most. I doubt there are many that have watched more Shocker basketball than myself. Yes, I want a high bar for this program and in today's world with 1800 portal transfers it's possible to happen quite quickly. I'm just not seeing any positive evidence here. Even in the 90's I don't remember such small crowds and dwindling interest. KP himself was never the issue for me. I don't believe he was well coached or played properly. I don't believe AM was well coached even with Marshall. I am just hoping we can find TWO quality front court players and the two new back court one's pan out as well as most of you think they will. I see the potential for a lot of mishandling of and unhappiness of at least four of the eight guards on board. Only time will tell.

[Shockm]

I believe, at least for myself, until we sign a replacement (or two) as good or better than Pohto so that someone other than 6'6" players at the 4 and backing up Ballard, this team has a real problem. I think it will also solve any problem asiseeit has as well.

Agreed. We haven't found a replacement for Pohto yet. However, I disagree that Pohto ever played like a 6'10 player. He played more like a 6'6 player, and I was disappointed in his development. And I was one who defended him and his future possibilities as a player at WSU. I thought he was the answer, but was wrong.

When he was signed, he was touted as a 6'10 player who could step out on the perimeter and stretch the floor. He was a good passer, but the defense never had to respect his ability to shoot it from the 3 point line. Therefore, his strengths from the perimeter were limited. His rebounding was ok, but he couldn't block or alter shots from inside. He was tall but couldn't jump and had little athletic ability.

His 6'10 height allowed him to be a decent back up 5, because he could defend the taller low post players better than shorter players could.

Bottom line is that he wasn't the answer to making us better. That is shown in the fact that he ended up at a very bad Santa Barbara Div. 1 school without NIL possibilities.

And we need a better back up option at the 5. But still Pohto wanted to leave and he wasn't the answer to making us a top tier AAC team.

[Shocker82/85]

I'll just go ahead and date myself. I was there when the "roundhouse" opened. Maybe it's because I've experienced our great past programs first hand that my expectations are set higher than most. I doubt there are many that have watched more Shocker basketball than myself. Yes, I want a high bar for this program and in today's world with 1800 portal transfers it's possible to happen quite quickly. I'm just not seeing any positive evidence here. Even in the 90's I don't remember such small crowds and dwindling interest. KP himself was never the issue for me. I don't believe he was well coached or played properly. I don't believe AM was well coached even with Marshall. I am just hoping we can find TWO quality front court players and the two new back court one's pan out as well as most of you think they will. I see the potential for a lot of mishandling of and unhappiness of at least four of the eight guards on board. Only time will tell.

Unless you think AM was better than Echinique, why would Marshall have played him more. AM’s play regressed in 19/20 from the way he finished in 2019 which was surprising because I remember Marshall commenting about how well he practiced in the spring of 2019 after the finish of the season.

Marshall’s decade was the longest sustained success in the history of the program. Ralph Miller had long term success but it was a little more up and down until he got Dave Stallworth. Thompson had 1 great year with Miller’s players. Gene Smithson was headed the right direction with 3 excellent seasons until he was derailed by the NCAA. Fogler did well with Gene’s players and left. Cohen, S. Thompson and R. Smithson had no success. Turgeon built the team up to have 1 excellent year. Brown had 1 good year with Marshall’s players. Marshall and Ralph Miller are the only coaches with sustained success. Otherwise it has been hit and miss with build ups of teams over 3 or 4 years to 1 good year.

Mills will have to do it differently than all the other coaches before him. I think it is impressive that he has retained every player he has recruited. If he has some success, maybe some bigger NIL money will become available to him because people will jump back up on the bandwagon. I have fallen off the baseball and volleyball bandwagons. I can’t be bothered to drive 1/2 an hour across town. I don’t even remember to watch the games on TV most of the time. Winning is required to fill arenas and stadiums in today’s world.

[shockerfan]

I'll just go ahead and date myself. I was there when the "roundhouse" opened. Maybe it's because I've experienced our great past programs first hand that my expectations are set higher than most. I doubt there are many that have watched more Shocker basketball than myself. Yes, I want a high bar for this program and in today's world with 1800 portal transfers it's possible to happen quite quickly. I'm just not seeing any positive evidence here. Even in the 90's I don't remember such small crowds and dwindling interest. KP himself was never the issue for me. I don't believe he was well coached or played properly. I don't believe AM was well coached even with Marshall. I am just hoping we can find TWO quality front court players and the two new back court one's pan out as well as most of you think they will. I see the potential for a lot of mishandling of and unhappiness of at least four of the eight guards on board. Only time will tell.

That's fine. But if you have been a fan for that long you must have been very miserable a lot of the time. As there have been great times and some absolutely horrible times. So I feel bad for ya there.

We obviously just have different expectations and that is fine.

I realize the portal can help programs stay at the top of their game or build quickly. But we are never going to consistently get the cream of the crop (top rated players available). We didnt with Marshall so we sure arent going to now, especially with NIL thrown in the mix. Not without some success from Mills for a few years. Even with the portal. And just like Marshall, Mills is lookong for high character kids. Served Marshall very well most of the time. We get players with potential and hope they develop quickly (since we can't plan on players for longer than 1 year at a time now). Which sucks but is the world we live in now. Just have to accept it.

Not to mention have to hope there remains chemistry in the locker room with lots of new faces every year.

[asiseeit]

Attendance is an important metric. Mediocrity, for me, is not acceptable. I don't give free passes. Get back to at least 8K butts in the seats or find a coach who can restore us to at least competing in our own conference. Is that to much to expect? Who is going to buy tickets or donate to a below average or average at best team?

[BostonWu]

The game has changed even though many do not want to accept it. It is more wide open and transition based. Leave the lane open for athletic players to drive and/or to kick out to 3 point marksmen.

Only works if you have makers

[vtshocker]

It’s not about a 6'6 player at the 4. It's about a 6'5 player at the 4 while a 6'6 player is playing the 5. QB can't play all 40 minutes

People complaining about the size our players at the 4 so that’s why I discuss the 6’6 guys. Mills isn’t recruiting a 6’6 Center. All the Centers we have mentioned to be interested in are 6’10 or taller

[Stickboy46]

People complaining about the size our players at the 4 so that’s why I discuss the 6’6 guys. Mills isn’t recruiting a 6’6 Center. All the Centers we have mentioned to be interested in are 6’10 or taller

Right .. the point is .. we don't have one yet. So yes, if we land one then we are likely better. If we swing and miss .. we might not be. That's the point.

[shockerfan]

Attendance is an important metric. Mediocrity, for me, is not acceptable. I don't give free passes. Get back to at least 8K butts in the seats or find a coach who can restore us to at least competing in our own conference. Is that to much to expect? Who is going to buy tickets or donate to a below average or average at best team?

It's on the fans to support. We got quite spoiled. And 90's didn't average 8k fans either. I think 5k - 6k without looking it up.

So win and the fans will come back. Simple

If I still lived there I would still have my season tickets....100%....no hesitation....no question

And Mills had 1 freaking year. Give him another year or 2. If we aren't competing among the top...then by all means fire his ass.

And don't give me "he can do it quicker thanks to the portal". Lazy argument that isn't that simple

[shockerfan]

Right .. the point is .. we don't have one yet. So yes, if we land one then we are likely better. If we swing and miss .. we might not be. That's the point.

I am good with this take. If we miss I will still wait and see. Proof will be in the production. But it will be harder to be drastically improved without a couple more big guys. But who knows. We will see. I won't immediately say we will be 100% worse. Too many variables.

[Stickboy46]

I am good with this take. If we miss I will still wait and see. Proof will be in the production. But it will be harder to be drastically improved without a couple more big guys. But who knows. We will see. I won't immediately say we will be 100% worse. Too many variables.

Yea, I'd feel better if we had more potential options being floated. So far we have seen one big man .. who has had very so-so production and similar or lower level of schools. Even he visited and still hasn't committed. So optimism is trending downwards. Its a big hole in the team right now.