The Rise & Fall of the Valley

[ShockdaWorld]

DJ Clayton out at Illinois State. Sinking ship.

Hahahaha. Sorry, not sorry.

[WuDrWu]

DJ Clayton out at Illinois State. Sinking ship.

Really? Any reason why?

[WuShock16]

I was disappointed in UNI after they beat KU in the tournament.. They seemed to be out to prove they were a tough team in the MVC before and a little after that year, then it all dissolved by the time Creighton left. The last 4 years they were about as quality competition as ISU red.

UNI is good every 4-5 years because they pin hopes on a couple of classes. Here are their NCAA appearanes from this century.

2004 (auto bid)
2005 (barely an at-large)
2006 (slightly solid at-large)

2009 (auto bid)
2010 (auto bid that was likely at-large quality)

2015 (auto bid that was solid at-large)
2016 (auto bid)

Notice the pattern in timing.

[Dave Stalwart]

DJ Clayton out at Illinois State. Sinking ship.

If he and McIntosh are both gone, don't hold your breath on Fayne. The whole thing is over. Big 10 about to get several good players from their farm conference.

[1972Shocker]

Really? Any reason why?

I have seen anything as far as a reason but once he transfers he will be at his 4th school in 4 years. Western Kentucky > Palm Beach (FL) State College > Illinois State > ???

[vbird53]

Many BCS programs would kill for this short-term history. In fact, didn't Coach Marshall recently say something about the level of bad basketball played at many BCS programs.

Not saying WSU should aspire to this level, but it really ain't bad, considering...


(replying to WuShock16 from above, it's been awhile since posting...)

[Stickboy46]

Many BCS programs would kill for this short-term history. In fact, didn't Coach Marshall recently say something about the level of bad basketball played at many BCS programs.

Not saying WSU should aspire to this level, but it really ain't bad, considering...


(replying to WuShock16 from above, it's been awhile since posting...)

They are comparable to a low/mid level P5 program. Not the world beater that their fans think they are.

[vbird53]

They are comparable to a low/mid level P5 program. Not the world beater that their fans think they are.

Like K-State...

[MoValley John]

Many BCS programs would kill for this short-term history. In fact, didn't Coach Marshall recently say something about the level of bad basketball played at many BCS programs.

Not saying WSU should aspire to this level, but it really ain't bad, considering...


(replying to WuShock16 from above, it's been awhile since posting...)

This.

There is a very small list of P-5 schools that get to the dance that regularly. Many P-5's would love to get there every three or four years. When your program goes every year, you might lose sight of just how difficult it is, or how well UNI has actually done.

[BOBB]

As much as 11 (or any odd number for that matter) would be fine for men's basketball, an odd number would be a logistical nightmare for volleyball and women's basketball, both sports relying upon travel partners for scheduling. That's why they'll either come back to 10 or eventually go to 12.

I had to look this up, because I never understood what a travel partner was. So for those, like me, that don't understand it. UCONN volleyball can fly into Wichita play a match, bus to Tulsa, then fly out. So Wichita and Tulsa would travel at the same time, giving the opponents opportunities to consolidate travel. Given the rising cost of hotel space and the decreasing cost of-albeit increasingly frustrating-air travel, I'm not sure how much of a win this is economically. Certainly less disruptive to the players as a bus can take them directly from point A to point B.

[AndShock]

I had to look this up, because I never understood what a travel partner was. So for those, like me, that don't understand it. UCONN volleyball can fly into Wichita play a match, bus to Tulsa, then fly out. So Wichita and Tulsa would travel at the same time, giving the opponents opportunities to consolidate travel. Given the rising cost of hotel space and the decreasing cost of-albeit increasingly frustrating-air travel, I'm not sure how much of a win this is economically. Certainly less disruptive to the players as a bus can take them directly from point A to point B.

Fun fact: our travel partner this year for volleyball is Memphis. I don't know if that's always going to be the case or just needed to be done due to timing.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Valpo's house:



Makes LOLoyola's place seem like the Taj Mahal.

Valpo spends just under $14M on their sports, which (although I don't have the most recent numbers right in front of me) puts them well into the running for poorest athletic department in the Valley of Dearth.

Such a Valley move; to obscurity and beyond, as a more depressed Buzz Lightyear might say.

Based on final KenPom ranks, Valpo men's basketball would have finished top 4 in the MVC 4 of the last 5 years. Spending money isn't unimportant, but it is also not the only thing that matters either. Valpo has had good success. Considering the MVC's realistic options, I don't think they are a bad add. As someone else already mentioned, this damages the Horizon. Realistically, staying ahead of those types of conferences is important for the MVC to stay relevant at all.

[WSUwatcher]

The Valley remnant may have reached the point of trying to stay ahead of other leagues (e.g., the Horizon, the Ohio Valley, etc.) by hoping to scoop up one of their more successful teams and thus not only maintaining or strengthening the MVC but also weakening the other. Ouch.

[Dave Stalwart]

The Valley remnant may have reached the point of trying to stay ahead of other leagues (e.g., the Horizon, the Ohio Valley, etc.) by hoping to scoop up one of their more successful teams and thus not only maintaining or strengthening the MVC but also weakening the other. Ouch.

I actually think this is the only way they can "succeed." All of the schools that could truly elevate the MVC are also on the short list for better conferences or they are way out of the realm of possibility geographically, so the MVC can't really get them.

For example, WSU was a school that elevated the MVC. But WSU was on a level worthy of an AAC invite and got it. Gonzaga could also elevate the MVC, but geography among other things, makes that impossible. Dayton and VCU could have elevated the MVC, but the A10 is a more desirable place, so they aren't going anywhere. All of the opportunities to strengthen the MVC are pretty much gone. The new goal has to be that they accept the fall in conference strength, but do their best to make sure they don't fall PAST the other conferences nearby. Only way to do that is poach those conferences...

I don't think there are any schools that the MVC could realistically get that could actually elevate the conference anymore. The best they can do is create as much seperation as possible between the current MVC and the closest nearby conferences behind the MVC. The MVC can't reach the A10 or MWC, so all it can do is poach schools from below...but even the best schools from below are schools like Valpo. That's the best get you can do if you are the MVC. It doesn't strengthen the MVC at all, but it does help create separation from the lower half of D-1 basketball because it hopefully causes those other conferences to fall further down at the same rate as you.

[wufan]

I was disappointed in UNI after they beat KU in the tournament.. They seemed to be out to prove they were a tough team in the MVC before and a little after that year, then it all dissolved by the time Creighton left. The last 4 years they were about as quality competition as ISU red.

They were REALLY good in 2015.