2017-18 National Poll Rankings

[ShockerPhi]

Looks like they're still planning on getting rid of RPI soon, luckily. 2018-2019 according to this guy:

https://twitter.com/lukewinn/status/885882686363099136

NCAA selection committee redefines "quality win" to boost value of road Ws; says composite metric to replace RPI is likely coming in '18-19

[ShockingButTrue]

I remember Winthrop. Every selection Sunday, year after year. 14,15,16 seed. I remember thinking, man it must suck to be Winthrop, getting screwed every year with a low seed.

Yep.

2007 preseason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006–0...tball_rankings

2007 postseason: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...gs/_/year/2007

Maybe they should have scheduled a b12 team that year...

:poster_wu:

[ShockCrazy]

Yep.

2007 preseason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006–0...tball_rankings

2007 postseason: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...gs/_/year/2007

Maybe they should have scheduled a b12 team that year...

:poster_wu:

Those are the same rankings, this is the actual pre-season rankings: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...1/seasontype/2

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Maybe they should have scheduled a b12 team that year...

Ummm... they did.

Winthrop lost 51-71 @ Texas A&M on 1/2/07

[CBB_Fan]

While RPI is a bit simplistic and the focus on a teams RPI wins rather than that team's actual RPI rank is derpy, it can be a useful tool. The reason it is useful is because it is strictly results oriented, I love KenPom, Sagarin, and even don't think BPI is as awful as some would claim, but here's the thing: these rankings aren't trying to tell you how good a team has performed or tell you who has a better resume, they are trying to predict who is better on a neutral court. Now that may seem like semantics, but it matters, ultimately you have to reward teams for winning games(now RPI isn't necessarily the best at this, but that's what it's TRYING to do), not reward them for style or performance in games from a metrics stand point.

Actually, RPI isn't about finding the best teams, it is about finding the best resumes. It isn't intended to be predictive (like Sagarin or KenPom), but rather to measure a team's achievement. The other metrics take game-stats into account and try to link them to win%, while RPI starts from win% and tells a team how good a job its done against expectations (meaning, against the expected outcome judging from their opponents win conditions).

RPI is very good at ranking teams based on their resume, but it is absolutely horrible at predicting which teams are actually the most capable of winning a game. Having an RPI of 50 means something, but having a 7-7 record against the top 50 does not.

[ShockCrazy]

Actually, RPI isn't about finding the best teams, it is about finding the best resumes. It isn't intended to be predictive (like Sagarin or KenPom), but rather to measure a team's achievement. The other metrics take game-stats into account and try to link them to win%, while RPI starts from win% and tells a team how good a job its done against expectations (meaning, against the expected outcome judging from their opponents win conditions).

RPI is very good at ranking teams based on their resume, but it is absolutely horrible at predicting which teams are actually the most capable of winning a game. Having an RPI of 50 means something, but having a 7-7 record against the top 50 does not.

Unless I'm misunderstanding I think we are saying the same thing.

[shockmonster]

Which year did Winthrop get screwed?

2002, KenPom #216 = 16 seed
2005, KenPom #111 = 14 seed
2006, KenPom #81 = 15 seed
2007, KenPom #50 = 11 seed

I shouldn't try to speak for Joco, but one could make the argument that Winthrop is in an unfair system because they had to play all of their non-conference games on the road as buy games because they didn't have the money. If that is what he was saying, it wouldn't be the seeding committee that treated them unfairly, but instead the entire system. Whatever you think, this shows how fine a job Gregg did at Winthrop because he made them relevant, nationally (they defeated Notre Dame in 2007) within that system.

[ShockingButTrue]

[QUOTE=shockmonster;743834 Whatever you think, this shows how fine a job Gregg did at Winthrop because he made them relevant, nationally (they defeated Notre Dame in 2007) within that system.[/QUOTE]


This is all day.

[ShockingButTrue]

Ummm... they did.

Winthrop lost 51-71 @ Texas A&M on 1/2/07

No shame there. The Aggies were good enough to beat the Chickens in Lawrence that year too.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Actually, RPI isn't about finding the best teams, it is about finding the best resumes.

Last season, the RPI considered a win over ISU equal to a win over WSU. I don't need to explain to this board how nuts that is.

The whole "best teams" vs "best resumes" is an interesting discussion, but only if teams and resumes are identified and ranked with competency. The RPI has "some" competency, but not nearly as much as other systems freely available. It is like using a club out of Arnold Palmer's bag in 1960 when a brand new Callaway that has been custom fit specifically for you is available, free of charge.

[Stickboy46]

Thought this was interesting. College Sports Madness does their Top 144 each year starting in the summer and ending right before the beginning of the year. They are at #116 right now. Teams of note. Missouri state comes in at #120 and #2 in the MVC. Memphis comes in at #119 and #9 in the American. That's right, the 9th best team in the American would finish second in the MVC according to them .....

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews

[WuShock16]

Thought this was interesting. College Sports Madness does their Top 144 each year starting in the summer and ending right before the beginning of the year. They are at #116 right now. Teams of note. Missouri state comes in at #120 and #2 in the MVC. Memphis comes in at #119 and #9 in the American. That's right, the 9th best team in the American would finish second in the MVC according to them .....

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/...p-144-previews

Hmmm. #1 team must be Valpo.

[Stickboy46]

Hmmm. #1 team must be Valpo.

Maybe Loyola ...

[WuShock Reaper]

"NCAA Basketball: Updated preseason top-25 after the NBA Draft" - FanSided

by Lukas Harkins
posted 07/13/17

http://bustingbrackets.com/2017/07/13/ncaa-basketball-updated-preseason-top-25-after-the-nba-draft/

"It is always difficult to predict how college basketball will play out, and determining an “accurate” preseason top-25 is impossible. With players graduating and transferring and new recruits getting settled in on campus, many teams have question marks coming into the season.
With that being said, it always exciting to look forward to the upcoming season and see which teams are regarded as being “the best” coming in. There are definitely going to be surprises who rise high in the rankings and make their move throughout the year, and the non-conference schedule has a ton of impact early on.

Often times, teams bring in outstanding recruiting classes and are overhyped to the point where they severely disappoint and sometimes teams cannot live up to the expectations set forth after a great season the year prior. Preseason rankings are interesting because they give a little insight into which teams could be the most talented and also insight debate about which other teams might take that next step up.

When it is all said and done, the rankings are usually irrelevant, as the NCAA Tournament selection/seeding and postseason play take precedent over the rankings. Yet, as it is too early to build a tournament resume, let’s take a look at an updated preseason top-25 now that the NBA Draft has been completed....

1. Arizona
2. Michigan State
3. Kansas
4. Kentucky
5. Duke

6. Wichita State Shockers -

Last ranking: 8

Major losses: None. Yeah, you read that right.

Major additions: Samajae Jones

Projected starters: Landry Shamet, Connor Frankamp, Zach Brown, Markis McDuffie, Shaq Morris

Wichita State was widely regarded as the most under-seeded team in the NCAA Tournament this past season. They had a remarkable season that was dragged down by their poor strength of schedule. This season, though, that will be very different. For starters, everybody knows how good this team is. They bring back every major contributor from the team that pushed Kentucky to the limit and will be playing in a new conference.

The American Athletic Conference might not be the best in the nation, but there are least two or three teams dancing every single season, a step up from the typical one bid from the Missouri Valley. Landry Shamet is the late-game clutch guard that every team needs and Gregg Marshall should be very happy with the roster that he has heading into this season. Wichita State will not be “shocking” anyone this season if they come out with a great regular season record. This team has proven their ability to win in March and they are starting an outstanding basketball tradition on campus.

7. Louisville
8. Villanova
9. USC
10. Florida..."

[WuShock Reaper]

"2017-2018 NCAA Basketball Preseason Top 25" - How They Play

by dmrlowd
Updated on July 20, 2017

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/2017-NCAA-Basketball-Preseason-Top-25

"Last season's NCAA Tournament was as competitive and enjoyable as it has ever been, but the gap between what can be referred to as college basketball's 7 power conferences and the other 25 appears to be getting larger, with the mass migration of high end graduate transfers to those power conferences being an emerging factor. Although a team from outside that group did play in the Championship game, that team, Gonzaga, was the only one from outside of the power conferences to advance as far as the Sweet 16, and the title was ultimately won by a blue blood. Overall, last year's Tournament saw only 3 teams from outside the power conferences receive at large berths; with Wichita St. moving to the AAC and the WCC being hit hard by graduation and NBA departures, that trend is likely to continue. Some proponents of the power conferences (Jay Bilas at ESPN, for example) have been against the presence of many of the smaller conferences in Division I and in the NCAA Tournament for years (there were 352 Division I teams last season including Grand Canyon, which admittedly might be a little out of control); as the competitive balance continues to degrade, they may eventually get their wish. With Gonzaga likely facing a down year (they should still be a NCAA Tournament team, just not a top 25 team), here's a quick glance at some of the teams to beat heading into the season, almost completely devoid of small conference representation....

1. Michigan State Spartans

2. Wichita State Shockers

2016-2017: 31-5, 17-1 in the MVC; lost to Kentucky in the NCAA Round of 32

Preseason Projection: National Runner-Up

Departures: Daishon Smith (4.8 ppg., 38.4% 3pt.)

Gregg Marshall's Shockers return every major contributor except backup point guard Daishon Smith, who should be capably replaced by a similar junior college recruit in Samajae Haynes-Jones. The most important development should come from sophomore point guard Landry Shamet, who seemingly came out of nowhere as a redshirt freshman to adequately and impressively replace Fred VanVleet. Shamet (11.4 ppg., 43.9% 3pt.) provides the team with a clutch shooter and he's tremendously efficient with the basketball (he posted a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio; the team finished 14th). The team will have plenty of shooting (8th in 3pt% last season) and size, and will of course play outstanding defense (4th in fg% defense, 19th in 3pt.% defense, and 2nd in rebounding margin). The Shockers should also benefit from the improved competition their move to the AAC will bring, which will make them that much more ready to compete by March. Marshall has taken Wichita St. to at least the second round and as far as the Final Four over the past five seasons, and this could be his best team to date.

3. USC Trojans
4. Virginia Cavaliers
5. Louisville Cardinals
6. Arizona Wildcats
7. Villanova Wildcats
8. Kentucky Wildcats
9. Texas A&M Aggies
10. Duke Blue Devils..."