WSU vs. Rambler Game Thread

[Cdizzle]

Marshall's Fresno zone is not an easy zone to learn and it's even more difficult to play. Most of us know zones as easy defenses....guard your area.

This is much more complicated than that, and I believe, FAR more difficult to learn than his man to man. It will take some time. It can be very effective against the best of teams, but it sure wasn't last night.

They'll get better.

Agreed. It has been used for years to steal very important possessions in very big games. He has implemented this during several of the 'open house' practices. It's fascinating. Both to learn how it's supposed to work, and to see how many split-second decisions these guys are asked to make at break-neck speed. The % that those decisions were correct over the last 5 years is unbelievable.

[SHOCKvalue]

Agreed. Really enjoyed the game. I could have stood to be more bored, but spice of life and all.

A bit of a tangent, but... I truly think the main cause of the flaky attendance and lacking atmosphere at Koch is because everyone is simply bored with the Shocks blowing out opponents these past few years. Weak justification for a quiet atmosphere, but it's hard to change basic human behavior, especially in a mass crowd setting. And yes, it is definitely unfair to Marshall, his staff, and his players, but losing a single game at CKA in four years strips the intrigue and drama out of the entertainment equation. (To be clear, I'm not saying we should start losing more at home.)

Last night was evidence of that. When the game got tight-ish there for 5-10 minutes in the second half, CKA was it's old self. Probably the best atmosphere this season in that little snapshot of time. We play a #10 UNI as a #11 WSU a couple of years ago and the place is rocking. Come close to losing to Alabama in the undefeated season and it's dB time. Alternatively, smoke UMES, Drake, SDSU, Bradley, etc, and we're all lulled to sleep.

Lots of words to state the obvious I suppose. Atmosphere at CKA has started to wane because the product is too good, and the opponents are generally not.

[ShockdaWorld]

A bit of a tangent, but... I truly think the main cause of the flaky attendance and lacking atmosphere at Koch is because everyone is simply bored with the Shocks blowing out opponents these past few years. Weak justification for a quiet atmosphere, but it's hard to change basic human behavior, especially in a mass crowd setting. And yes, it is definitely unfair to Marshall, his staff, and his players, but losing a single game at CKA in four years strips the intrigue and drama out of the entertainment equation. (To be clear, I'm not saying we should start losing more at home.)

Last night was evidence of that. When the game got tight-ish there for 5-10 minutes in the second half, CKA was it's old self. Probably the best atmosphere this season in that little snapshot of time. We play a #10 UNI as a #11 WSU a couple of years ago and the place is rocking. Come close to losing to Alabama in the undefeated season and it's dB time. Alternatively, smoke UMES, Drake, SDSU, Bradley, etc, and we're all lulled to sleep.

Lots of words to state the obvious I suppose. Atmosphere at CKA has started to wane because the product is too good, and the opponents are generally not.

All the more reason to get out of this dreadful conference.

[SHOCKvalue]

All the more reason to get out of this dreadful conference.

Yeah, that's the subcontext of my thought too.

[WuDrWu]

You're right, we're spoiled and bored as a fan base. We're used to and expecting an easy and non-competitive game where the outcome is not in question after intermission.

It's crazy. If the opposing team is even in the game in the last 20 minutes it's almost treated as blasphemy. The success of this program has made us so spoiled as fans.

Get me outta here under 10 to go. We only won by 27......geez they've cut it 17. Why haven't we scored the last 2 times down the court.

#ShockerNationProblems

But the biggest thing it has underscored is that no one will come here to play us. And nobody in conference makes us better.

I love this team, but we aren't "all that". Not close. Mostly because we can't improve by playing better teams.

OU and OSU are a combined 0-8 in the Big12. They would finish 1-2-3 with us in the Valley. We're not going to be prepared for March by pounding the Valley, I don't care how many we win.

The success Marshall has brought to this great program is unmatched. Period. It's never been this good. If it doesn't get us out of this conference, then I fear it's a wasted cause.

Wonderful memories, tremendous accomplishments, but all for naught once Marshall retires.

[WuShock16]

It's not so much that I want Wichita State to always have close games. If the Shockers blew out Duke by 30, Koch would still implode from the Play Angry faithful. Heck, in the NIT championship season when WSU had some bad home losses, I distinctly remember wanting a couple blowouts so that we could enjoy without sweating too much.

What hurts the atmosphere is the lack of drama entering the game. Most games, we walk in with the expectation that the Shockers should name the score. Now, I am proud of the kids and coaching staff, so this isn't their fault. I blame the crappy competition (I'm looking at you, Valley ankle-biters). It is nice to have games like Creighton in 2013 and UNI in 2015 where there was mystery in the eventual outcome. There has been mystery going into most of the Intrust games (UAB in 2011 and St. Louis in 2014 being exceptions). That's what makes games fun.

[1972Shocker]

Anybody see the KUnkel tweet where Nurger got called for an offensive fall while the guy had a forearm in his back and Rauno was moving away from him? I didn't see the play live, as I was watching someone else at the time, but that was pretty damn bad. I can kind of understand missing a call here and there, or making the wrong call, but making up calls is trash.

Yes, I saw it live from angle pretty from behind Rauno. I have no idea what the ref saw that caused him to ring up Rauno on that play.

[1972Shocker]

It's not so much that I want Wichita State to always have close games. If the Shockers blew out Duke by 30, Koch would still implode from the Play Angry faithful. Heck, in the NIT championship season when WSU had some bad home losses, I distinctly remember wanting a couple blowouts so that we could enjoy without sweating too much.

What hurts the atmosphere is the lack of drama entering the game. Most games, we walk in with the expectation that the Shockers should name the score. Now, I am proud of the kids and coaching staff, so this isn't their fault. I blame the crappy competition (I'm looking at you, Valley ankle-biters). It is nice to have games like Creighton in 2013 and UNI in 2015 where there was mystery in the eventual outcome. There has been mystery going into most of the Intrust games (UAB in 2011 and St. Louis in 2014 being exceptions). That's what makes games fun.

You should enjoy the upcoming Illinois State game then and regardless of that outcome I would anticipate some anticipation when the Redbirds return to Koch Arena 17 days (Feb 4th) after the game in Normal.

[WuShock16]

You should enjoy the upcoming Illinois State game then and regardless of that outcome I would anticipate some anticipation when the Redbirds return to Koch Arena 17 days (Feb 4th) after the game in Normal.

Those will be fun indeed. I am bringing some friends to the Illinois State game in February. My friend's husband is in the Air Force. They are both from Wichita area but have moved around quite a bit because of his service. They are back living in Kansas for a year for some specific training that he will receive. While they are back here, I promised to take them to a Shocker game as a thank you to their service (and I stress THEIR because families sacrifice just as much as the actual military members). I'm glad they picked this one. My friend told me that she has never been to a big-time college basketball game, so I'm counting on Shocker Nation to bring it strong that night.

[Dave Stalwart]

Marshall's Fresno zone is not an easy zone to learn and it's even more difficult to play. Most of us know zones as easy defenses....guard your area.

This is much more complicated than that, and I believe, FAR more difficult to learn than his man to man. It will take some time. It can be very effective against the best of teams, but it sure wasn't last night.

They'll get better.

Instead of calling it "Fresno Zone", I'd like to see Marshall change the name to "FroZone"

[proshox]

I'm not anti zone. I am anti zone against a really good outside shooting team or when its become obvious that the zone isn't working.

I am not anti-zone. I am anti-playing any defense your team can't execute.

We look generally confused as to each player's responsibility in a zone. In fact, most high schools look sharper than our zone.

Last night was especially bad. Loyola had to make no more than one pass to get a wide open look.

[ShockerFever]

A bit of a tangent, but... I truly think the main cause of the flaky attendance and lacking atmosphere at Koch is because everyone is simply bored with the Shocks blowing out opponents these past few years. Weak justification for a quiet atmosphere, but it's hard to change basic human behavior, especially in a mass crowd setting. And yes, it is definitely unfair to Marshall, his staff, and his players, but losing a single game at CKA in four years strips the intrigue and drama out of the entertainment equation. (To be clear, I'm not saying we should start losing more at home.)

Last night was evidence of that. When the game got tight-ish there for 5-10 minutes in the second half, CKA was it's old self. Probably the best atmosphere this season in that little snapshot of time. We play a #10 UNI as a #11 WSU a couple of years ago and the place is rocking. Come close to losing to Alabama in the undefeated season and it's dB time. Alternatively, smoke UMES, Drake, SDSU, Bradley, etc, and we're all lulled to sleep.

Lots of words to state the obvious I suppose. Atmosphere at CKA has started to wane because the product is too good, and the opponents are generally not.

Fact.

It really does feel different. The weak competition is definitely a valid point but I still think it's a crappy excuse not cheer FOR WSU, instead of it being about who WSU is playing. There were times in the past when we'd play Valley competition where it would get beyond crazy and loud, even in blowouts. For instance, the Daishon slam last night. Crazy, athletic jam. Crowd gets crazy for a couple seconds after the dunk. Normally, I would think it would lead to the extended applause, subsequent noise, and everybody on their feet. It wilted and died after about 10 seconds. Just feels like the kid deserved a better reaction than he got, but instead, the excuse is because we're playing Loyola, we don't have to care/cheer as much.

Crazy, spoiled fanbase. Again, I get it, but it's definitely not the same. And I still don't understand the leaving early in a 6 point game with 2 minutes to go deal. Especially, when it's an hour earlier and not even freaking 8PM. Gotta race home for that Flip or Flop marathon. Pointless.

[1972Shocker]

Fact.

It really does feel different. The weak competition is definitely a valid point but I still think it's a crappy excuse not cheer FOR WSU, instead of it being about who WSU is playing. There were times in the past when we'd play Valley competition where it would get beyond crazy and loud, even in blowouts. For instance, the Daishon slam last night. Crazy, athletic jam. Crowd gets crazy for a couple seconds after the dunk. Normally, I would think it would lead to the extended applause, subsequent noise, and everybody on their feet. It wilted and died after about 10 seconds. Just feels like the kid deserved a better reaction than he got, but instead, the excuse is because we're playing Loyola, we don't have to care/cheer as much.

Crazy, spoiled fanbase. Again, I get it, but it's definitely not the same. And I still don't understand the leaving early in a 6 point game with 2 minutes to go deal. Especially, when it's an hour earlier and not even freaking 8PM. Gotta race home for that Flip or Flop marathon. Pointless.

No doubt the non-competitive games are a factor. I wonder if there are some other factors at play here as well.

One would be demographics. The population is aging. Wichita is not immune to that. How does this effect the energy and rambunctiousness levels in the arena. Unfortunately, I admit to contributing to that. I simply am not as energetic or vocal as I used to be. I think that is kind of natural as you age.

Another I would call cultural. Mobile phones have had a big impact on how people conduct themselves. More than a few fans seem to have their attention divided between the game and whatever they are entertaining themselves with on their phones. Maybe sending a text to the person sitting next to them. I can say that I am not contributing to this if it is a factor.

Just a couple of thoughts. All-in-all though based on what I see and hear about other games WSU still seems to be on of the better venues and atmosphere's for college basketball. Can it get better? Sure it can. Everything can generally be improved upon. Whether it will or not remains to be seen. Maybe a change in conference would reinvigorate the fan base, at least for some period of time.

As far as last night goes, I thought the crowd brought it pretty good late in the game after Loyola had closed to within 4 or so.

As far as people leaving early maybe we need to bring back the WuShock videos where he is tracking down the leave early culprits. Not that it did or would make much of a difference. Perhaps that offended too many high rollers though. More than likely though is that those spots don't generate any money.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I watched the game video tonight.

In the second half, I thought the Shockers were going to lose.

I am so glad that Coach Jans is back with us. We are going to have our hands full in ORD and maybe BMI.

How did Loy ever lose to Drake? Final score was 102-98. Lock down defense.

[shockmonster]

I watched the game video tonight.

In the second half, I thought the Shockers were going to lose.

I am so glad that Coach Jans is back with us. We are going to have our hands full in ORD and maybe BMI.

How did Loy ever lose to Drake? Final score was 102-98. Lock down defense.

They don't have a culture yet that ensures toughness every game and we are their Super Bowl albeit on the road. Milt Doyle can be a great player but he isn't disciplined enough to do it every time. But they always bring "it" when they play the Shocks.