2016-2017 Starting PG Poll

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

And with this thinking, every home and conference loss is a turd. Perfection is the expectation, anything less, a failure. :good:

No, no, no. Perfection is not the expectation. I expect a few turds. Every team lays a turd or two--except the 2014 Shockers and, of course, the '91 Running Rebels.

[Cdizzle]

UNI loss x 2, ISU loss come to mind immediately.....

EDIT: I understand every conference poses it's own challenge, but when we have 2 AA's and unbelievably high expectations, those games come off as turds. Tournament Committee doesn't care to hear our reasoning for dropping games to bad teams, legitimate or not.

Remind me how February/March UNI is a bad team?

And you can't say "I understand" and then turn around and spout off a complete lack of understanding.

Man, it's going to be a really long off-season. Sure wish the baseball team was good enough to spend more time on.

[WuDrWu]

No, no, no. Perfection is not the expectation. I expect a few turds. Every team lays a turd or two--except the 2014 Shockers and, of course, the '91 Running Rebels.

My apologies, my comment honestly was not aimed at yours, but at others with sarcasm. Everyone has the right to be upset with whatever upsets you. And likewise, happy and joyous with whatever good times happen along.

My point is simply that to EXPECT to be better next year, as a FAN (not a coach or player) is unreasonable.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

My apologies, my comment honestly was not aimed at yours, but at others with sarcasm. Everyone has the right to be upset with whatever upsets you. And likewise, happy and joyous with whatever good times happen along.

My point is simply that to EXPECT to be better next year, as a FAN (not a coach or player) is unreasonable.

Completely agree

[shockmonster]

My point is simply that to EXPECT to be better next year, as a FAN (not a coach or player) is unreasonable.

This is right. For UNI to be a turd with an RPI of 70 is not logical. They had a good team (Texas) when they didn't put their head up their backside (TA&M) for 30 sec.

[WheatShocker2]

EDIT: redacted. I'm going back to lurking.

[Overtime]

However good we are next year, we should be even better the following year. There will be zero scholarship seniors on the team. That and additional recruits makes the future very bright!

[proshox]

My comments were based on years of playing, coaching, and observing this game. If you believe 2016 was the pinnacle, well I'm sorry but we were CBI level on offense. So do you think its a pipe dream and IRRESPONSIBLE to expect our offense will be better than CBI level next season?

Ron & Fred are leaving this program in better shape than when they arrived. And next years team will show that.


Our season next year, good or bad, is not a reflection on Ron nor Fred. It will be a reflection of the 2017 players and coaches. We have kids that are special. Especially special in the MVC.

Don't sell our 2017 team short.

This!

[proshox]

So are mine.



Actually I know 2016 wasn't the pinnacle. None of us know if they will ever exceed the recent success. My point was simply don't expect to get better for any reason other than blind hope. There are no tangible and or realistic reasons to believe next year's team will be better.




To "expect"? Yes, I think it's irresponsible for a fan to expect that, undeniably so. A pipe dream? Maybe that's a little strong. But even then, it would be laughable to argue that next year's team should be expected to be anywhere near as good defensively.

None of these thoughts mean the team cannot be. My point is that it's unreasonable to expect it. I'll bet Drake fans think they're going to improve enough to compete for a Valley Championship. It's not unreasonable to hope, it's unreasonable to expect, given the facts.





No argument from me. They certainly have. But we have little to no point guard experience and no true power forward with offensive skill. Now, I'm the one that has and will argue that this program can fall back A LOT and still dominate the Valley.

Let's face it, we won 16 games by an average of 20 points. Everyone could close 15 points, and they'd still be 16-2 or near. But to be better, there's almost no room for error and to expect a team with NO seniors to be that locked in for 40 games is a bit much. No, it IS IRRESPONSIBLE.




I don't think anyone said it will be a reflection on Ron and Fred. And I don't think I'm selling the team short. I'm just saying don't expect the unreasonable.

Where I disagree is that we were so damn reliant on beating teams with our defense. The 20 points wins were a result of opposing teams giving up on offense. None of them came as a result of great half court offense by WSU.

Against top competition you need to have a better balance between offense and defense. I have faith this team had the talent to be better, but couldn't figure out how to evolve. All of our metrics pretty much point to this fact that we were not a top 100 offense despite having really good basketball players.

Next year, We will have top 50 offensive talent. This team will not be constrained by a set way of playing on offense. We will get better. The net result of HCGM's defense and a free flowing offense will be a team more capable of beating top competition.

[Cdizzle]

Next year, We will have top 50 offensive talent.

Based on...?? Recruiting videos? I'm not saying it isn't possible. But I ain't counting those chickens either.

[proshox]

Next year we start the best five returners:

CF, LS, ZB, MM, and SM

[proshox]

Based on...?? Recruiting videos? I'm not saying it isn't possible. But I ain't counting those chickens either.

Watching our returners play.

[Cdizzle]

Next year we start the best five returners:

CF, LS, ZB, MM, and SM

And we are very certain that this is a better offensive lineup than FVV, RB, ZB, MM and SM? Cause that was a thing this year.

[WuDrWu]

Where I disagree is that we were so damn reliant on beating teams with our defense. The 20 points wins were a result of opposing teams giving up on offense. None of them came as a result of great half court offense by WSU.

Against top competition you need to have a better balance between offense and defense. I have faith this team had the talent to be better, but couldn't figure out how to evolve. All of our metrics pretty much point to this fact that we were not a top 100 offense despite having really good basketball players.

Next year, We will have top 50 offensive talent. This team will not be constrained by a set way of playing on offense. We will get better. The net result of HCGM's defense and a free flowing offense will be a team more capable of beating top competition.

This is a well thought out and fair way to look at and project towards next year. Excellent.

[proshox]

And we are very certain that this is a better offensive lineup than FVV, RB, ZB, MM and SM? Cause that was a thing this year.

It can compete with that line up, but one should note we hardly played that lineup.

I expect 60% of that line up (ZB, MM, & SM) to be improved over this year's version.

ZB will improve his confidence and aggressiveness.

SM will take a step forward by playing 3-5 minutes a game more.

MM will take multiple steps forward - he will be stronger, experienced, and aggressive.

LS can fill the RB spot there will be some drop off in ability, but the increased scoring ability at the three, four and five will get him better opportunities than RB had the last two years.

I have more confidence in CF than most. I see him as a facilitator that can knock down shots. Getting the ball in his hands earlier will help his shooting confidence. I also don't see him running the ball screen/dribble offense like FV or RB tend to do which should be a positive for LS, ZB, & MM. On the downside, I don't see him carrying the team on offense like FV could. Fred had a ton of games where he just put the team on his back (especially a a sophomore and junior).

There will be days where the offense will look awful, but I think the average efficiency improves.