2016-2017 Starting PG Poll

[IndianaShocker]

I think the guard rotation, as of right now, would be:

PG: Landry Shamet, Daishon Smith, Conner Frankamp, Ty Taylor (possible departure if he doesn't improve)
SG: Conner Frankamp, Peyton Allen, Landry Shamet, Austin Reeves (possible red-shirt if he doesn't compete for major minutes)
SF: Zach Brown, CJ Keyser, Markis McDuffie, Peyton Allen


I see Landry as the most "pure point" of the bunch, and with a season of redshirting under his belt at PG I think he is the frontrunner. However, Daishon Smith might overtake him with his extra years of JUCO ball. Conner I see getting the majority of his minutes at the 2. Just going off the number of guards we have, we'll either have 2-3 departures/redshirts or we'll be seeing a ton of 3-guard sets, or both. Keyser, Allen, and maybe Reeves can be that 3rd guard but I think Keyser has the best odds, because coach has described him as a taller Tekele Cotton who he mostly played at SF.

The questionable candidates are Ty Taylor and Reeves. I think they are both good candidates to redshirt, for a couple reasons. Smith is not likely to redshirt as a JUCO, and Allen can't. Keyser might redshirt, but there are fewer people ahead of him at SF so he probably has a better shot at minutes. At the very least I think that if we had to play a basketball game tomorrow 60m would be divided among Conner, Landry, and Daishon and behind them is Peyton. Given the way Marshall stuck with Wessel, I think it is going to be very difficult for anyone to steal a starting spot or minutes from Zach Brown.

I think our most likely starting 5 is: Shamet/Smith, Frankamp, Bush, McDuffie/Willis, Morris. Our 4-5 man bench would probably be: Shamet/Smith, McDuffie/Willis, Allen, Nurger, Kelly. If anyone else gets in that group without injuries being a factor, we are in luck because it means someone has taken very big steps and will be a very effective starter for 2-4 years. IE, if Austin Reeves is our starting SG we may have another Baker-level talent on our hands.

Barring injuries and the unforeseen McDuffie, Shamat, & Shaq will be our nucleus.

Obviously Landry is very good, but I haven't seen enough of yet to know how good.

McDuffie on the other hand I have seen. He's going to blow up next year. Mark it down. I'm not sure there will be a rerurning forward in America better by seasons end. OG at Indiana is another special freshman forward who will return next season. But I would rather have MM.

Shaq maybe the 2nd most dominant player in the MVC next season if he can play 25+ minutes.

Once the kinks get worked out, we will have an explosive offense. Much quicker and athletic overall with a dominant wing and a dominant post, allowing CF and PA to get clean looks.

We won't have F&R, but I'll go ahead and say it...March 2017 Shockers >> March 2016 Shockers

[Kel Varnsen]

We won't have F&R, but I'll go ahead and say it...March 2017 Shockers >> March 2016 Shockers

This is very true.

[wufan]

Have to agree with most of what @IndianaShocker: said: Great returning core with Landry, Markis, and Shaq!

[WuDrWu]

We won't have F&R, but I'll go ahead and say it...March 2017 Shockers >> March 2016 Shockers

This isn't an attack on you but these kind of comments are, to me, irresponsible. We're losing 2 of the top 10 players in the HISTORY of the program.

Projecting forward what we see as potential from players who have shown some glimpses of success but little consistency, seems more than pie in the eyeish to me.

Give these guys a chance to come into their own. I agree that there is a lot of potential there. A lot. And I believe Landry will be a special player, but he's yet to play 1 really important game.


Don't take things for granted and don't set expectations where they have to be nearly perfect to break even.

[shock]

This isn't an attack on you but these kind of comments are, to me, irresponsible. We're losing 2 of the top 10 players in the HISTORY of the program.

Projecting forward what we see as potential from players who have shown some glimpses of success but little consistency, seems more than pie in the eyeish to me.

Give these guys a chance to come into their own. I agree that there is a lot of potential there. A lot. And I believe Landry will be a special player, but he's yet to play 1 really important game.


Don't take things for granted and don't set expectations where they have to be nearly perfect to break even.

How about this- March 2017 Shockers have potential to be a better offensive team (~80ppg) while taking a barely noticeable step back on defense (60ppga) than this years March team. The defense is there, the offense is there, and I don't think losing Fred and Ron will hurt as bad on the court.

While we are losing 2 All Americans, we have 2 more with the same potential (Markis and Landry). I don't think anyone can deny their potential. Add in Zach as a defensive stopper, Conner as a sniper, and Shaq as The Donald's wet dream of a wall (also, all of these are easily within grasp).

You might blast me on this though. I think where we really lose Fred and Ron is in the locker room. Fred was awesome on the court, but he and Ron became this teams crutch instead of their leg up. Refs targeted Fred, teams targeted Fred, and there was little to no next man up. There were games when Fred gave up. Ron rarely had a bad game, but he showed early on that he was not capable of putting this team on his back and Balentineing them to victory.

I don't think this is addition by subtraction, but I also don't think we take a step back next year.

Some caveats:
Remember how gelled the 06-07 team was after their overseas trip?
Shaq needs to be able to double his mpg.
We need leadership.
We need a good ball handling PG.
We need better coaching from the lower assistants.

[jdshock]

How about this- March 2017 Shockers have potential to be a better offensive team (~80ppg) while taking a barely noticeable step back on defense (60ppga) than this years March team. The defense is there, the offense is there, and I don't think losing Fred and Ron will hurt as bad on the court.

I don't think anyone has a problem with saying we have all the potential in the world on our team. The issue is the expectation that we will be better or the expectation that certain players will be better than Ron or Fred. People on here are saying Landry will be better than them next year. People are saying next year's team will be better. People are saying Ron and Fred dragged the team down this year because the offense stagnated with them in the game.

We've just watched the end of two of the most special careers in Shocker basketball history. To act like these next four years will definitely top what we've seen recently just sets people up for disappointment. This team could be special again next year, and it definitely looks promising for the following year. But we're a couple days removed from the end of an era.

Ron and Fred were the two best player in the Valley and it wasn't close. Lots of coaches in the country would have picked Fred first in a college basketball player draft. Ron and Fred were also the two best players on this team, and we lose them. Since it's still March, we should maybe temper our expectations a bit.

At least until Cold's predictions leak and he talks about how we could beat 2/3rds of the NBA. Until then, we should celebrate the careers of some great Shockers and not toss them aside as we argue that we're going to be way better next year.

[Stickboy46]

How about this- March 2017 Shockers have potential to be a better offensive team (~80ppg) while taking a barely noticeable step back on defense (60ppga) than this years March team. The defense is there, the offense is there, and I don't think losing Fred and Ron will hurt as bad on the court.

While we are losing 2 All Americans, we have 2 more with the same potential (Markis and Landry). I don't think anyone can deny their potential. Add in Zach as a defensive stopper, Conner as a sniper, and Shaq as The Donald's wet dream of a wall (also, all of these are easily within grasp).

You might blast me on this though. I think where we really lose Fred and Ron is in the locker room. Fred was awesome on the court, but he and Ron became this teams crutch instead of their leg up. Refs targeted Fred, teams targeted Fred, and there was little to no next man up. There were games when Fred gave up. Ron rarely had a bad game, but he showed early on that he was not capable of putting this team on his back and Balentineing them to victory.

I don't think this is addition by subtraction, but I also don't think we take a step back next year.

Some caveats:
Remember how gelled the 06-07 team was after their overseas trip?
Shaq needs to be able to double his mpg.
We need leadership.
We need a good ball handling PG.
We need better coaching from the lower assistants.

I agree a lot with this post EXCEPT the highlighted part. I can't remember a single game where Fred "gave up". I'm hoping that was just poor choice of wording from you. I also think we take a step back, but not a fall back. You don't lose that leadership on the floor without struggles. I'm just hoping the basketball gods are nicer to us next year and we get a few breaks/bounces/rolls to go our way.

[Play Angry]

The range of potential outcomes for next year is the highest in a half decade.

We will be good. That could mean Top 75 good, or it could mean Top 25 good. Neither end of that spectrum would shock me.

Given our coach's track record, I tend to err on the side of optimism when given the choice.

[shockmonster]

Next year should not compare to this year. This team won a 3rd MVC Championship. Next year will be a totally different team with little resemblance. They should in the pre season discussion as a contender but they've done nothing yet. Wait until they get into the NCAA before you compare anything.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

This isn't an attack on you but these kind of comments are, to me, irresponsible. We're losing 2 of the top 10 players in the HISTORY of the program.

Projecting forward what we see as potential from players who have shown some glimpses of success but little consistency, seems more than pie in the eyeish to me.

Give these guys a chance to come into their own. I agree that there is a lot of potential there. A lot. And I believe Landry will be a special player, but he's yet to play 1 really important game.


Don't take things for granted and don't set expectations where they have to be nearly perfect to break even.

Darn you and your voice of reason!

[choida]

We need more hits and less misses... I get that recruiting is about getting as much potential talent as possible and see who fits your system...

[ShockdaWorld]

We need more hits and less misses... I get that recruiting is about getting as much potential talent as possible and see who fits your system...

Huh?

[IndianaShocker]

This isn't an attack on you but these kind of comments are, to me, irresponsible. We're losing 2 of the top 10 players in the HISTORY of the program.

Projecting forward what we see as potential from players who have shown some glimpses of success but little consistency, seems more than pie in the eyeish to me.

Give these guys a chance to come into their own. I agree that there is a lot of potential there. A lot. And I believe Landry will be a special player, but he's yet to play 1 really important game.


Don't take things for granted and don't set expectations where they have to be nearly perfect to break even.

My comments were based on years of playing, coaching, and observing this game. If you believe 2016 was the pinnacle, well I'm sorry but we were CBI level on offense. So do you think its a pipe dream and IRRESPONSIBLE to expect our offense will be better than CBI level next season?

Ron & Fred are leaving this program in better shape than when they arrived. And next years team will show that.


Our season next year, good or bad, is not a reflection on Ron nor Fred. It will be a reflection of the 2017 players and coaches. We have kids that are special. Especially special in the MVC.

Don't sell our 2017 team short.

[im4wsu]

We need more hits and less misses... I get that recruiting is about getting as much potential talent as possible and see who fits your system...

Trying to understand where you're coming from, it seems like you're defining a "miss" to be any player recruited who does not end up starting at WSU for whatever reason. To make a judgement as a "miss" on kids who don't make an impact in their freshman year and then transfer for their own well-being is very harsh, IMHO. Particularly when they go on to have good careers at other schools. Kids like Joe Mitchell, Jake White, Derail Green. Waiting to see on Henderson, Holland, Glass. The point being that it took JT Durley, Paul Miller, and many many others several years to develop into what is probably called a "hit." Attrition happens at most every school and very often it is good for both the player and the program.

[Heinro]

I expect us to lose more games we shouldn't, whether we are better or not. Fred and Ron won games they were supposed to at an unbelievable rate.