Selection Sunday Thread

[pie n eye]

Well, the die is cast and we need to make the most of our situation.

Here's to a better seed next year.

Game over, huh?

[Rixtoy1]

I am sitting hear just smiling at all this "my dick is bigger than yours" debate and thinking back to last Thanksgiving when things looked so bad for the Shockers that I never thought they would have a chance at being in the tournament the way things were going. But the coaches never gave up, the players never gave up, the fans never gave up - and I am so happy that Fred, Evan, Ron, Butch and Anton don't have to end their careers playing in the NIT. I just want to enjoy the moment (hopefully moments) and pray they have some fun and win a few. They deserve it.

[CBB_Fan]

The committee this year completely ignored every stat but top-X wins unless the quality wins metric was virtually tied. To use an analogy, say we are comparing two players. The first averages 15 PPG, the second averages 20 PPG. But the 15 PPG player shoots just 10 shots a game, plays tremendous defense, gets assists, steals, rebounds, blocks, etc. Meanwhile the 20 PPG player is shooting 20 shots a game and barely registers outside of that. Committee universally agrees the 20 PPG scorer is better, end of story.

Similarly, arguing ONLY about # of wins completely ignores the differing number of opportunities between teams or how good they are by other metrics. A power conference team like say Vanderbilt might have more good wins than a mid-major like Monmouth. But what does that mean? The single largest factor in number of quality wins is # of opportunities, not team strength. And even worse, Vanderbilt got roughly half their opportunities at home where they have an inherent advantage. Vanderbilt had 7 top 100 wins, Monmouth had 3. However, Monmouth went 3-4 with 1 game in 7 at home. Vanderbilt went 7-10, with 8 of those 17 at home. Shrink to Top50 and Monmouth was 1-1 (neither at home) while Vanderbilt was 2-7 with 3 at home.

The stance taken by the committee this year is that mid-majors are not welcome, and they chose to over-value a stat that says a top-30 team that happens to be a mid-major is less deserving than a team outside the top-60 that happens to play in a power conference. I think a very good argument could be made that Tulsa, for instance, shouldn't have been in the tournament even if the cut-line was 64, given that virtually every metric has them at 64+ (Kenpom, Sagarin, BPI, Warren Nolan, OOC SOS, RPI).

[mjbaker84]

I liked when Calipari ripped the committee and how they handle it. Dude just gang raped them verbally.

[pogo]

Gotta root for the Valley over Texas.

Gotta root for ANYBODY over Texass

[pogo]

I am sitting hear just smiling at all this "my dick is bigger than yours" debate and thinking back to last Thanksgiving when things looked so bad for the Shockers that I never thought they would have a chance at being in the tournament the way things were going. But the coaches never gave up, the players never gave up, the fans never gave up - and I am so happy that Fred, Evan, Ron, Butch and Anton don't have to end their careers playing in the NIT. I just want to enjoy the moment (hopefully moments) and pray they have some fun and win a few. They deserve it.

Mine IS bigger than yours.

[shocka khan]

Also who did the mayor of Dayton bribe to get these games every year at the expense and inconvenience of everybody else. Why can't Vandy and us just play in Providence?

Dayton is centrally located, within a little more than an hour's drive from Cincy, Indy and Columbus.

All locations have good airports. Providence's airport is confusing and small.just about the only thing I think it has going for it is that it's a fairly easy drive from Boston. It does have an Amtrack station within walking distance, so that might be a plus.

Daton's arena is large. And there are a LOT of options for hotels with the three cities mentioned being close. I've flown into Providence and it just isn't made for high volumes of people flying in. KCI is much better than Providence.

[WuShock16]

Don't lose to UNI twice and don't lose to IlSU Red after blowing a big lead.

That simple.

Illinois State was our worst loss with a 115ish RPI. UNI was a Top 70 team.

Syracuse lost to St. John's...a 246 RPI team...let me repeat that:

246

Why does Syracuse get a pass for a horrible, disgusting loss and we basically have to go perfect?

[Kung Wu]

CBS politicked HARD -- VERY hard -- to leave the Shox out. Then the committee puts all the RPI -54- P5 teams in and snubs the non-P5 RPI -54 schools. Something stinks about this. Did CBS somehow pressure the committee to have a P5 heavy tournament for ratings?

@Jamar Howard 4 President:, when you look at the non P5 schools that DID make it in, how do they look from a seeding standpoint across the board? As expected for the most part, or is there a surprising seed penalty for being non-P5 across the board?

[shockmonster]

Don't lose to UNI twice and don't lose to IlSU Red after blowing a big lead.That simple.

My favorite team The Shockers aren't perfect but some on here seem to be harder on us than on other teams (research needs to be done on both sides). For example, Providence was some 12 or 13 spots ahead of the Shox.

But if you look at their record, they lost to #199 DePaul and #111 Marquette in February. Marquette's RPI isn't too much different from ISUR and both of these RPI's are clearly behind UNI. Many teams had late losses that were not the best. It's amazing how much space some people give P5 schools over non-P5 schools.

I'm sure that Providence had some very good wins too, but It's important to present these issues with balance. I admit that I'm biased, I'm not letting people who are biased against the Shox off with a pass.

Again, my main point is that almost everyone had bad losses in February.

[WuDrWu]

Don't lose to UNI twice and don't lose to IlSU Red after blowing a big lead.

That simple.

UNC lost to UNI without a penalty. Iowa State apparently did too. But losing to St Johns is aok. So is playing no road non con games.

[WuDrWu]

The committee this year completely ignored every stat but top-X wins unless the quality wins metric was virtually tied. To use an analogy, say we are comparing two players. The first averages 15 PPG, the second averages 20 PPG. But the 15 PPG player shoots just 10 shots a game, plays tremendous defense, gets assists, steals, rebounds, blocks, etc. Meanwhile the 20 PPG player is shooting 20 shots a game and barely registers outside of that. Committee universally agrees the 20 PPG scorer is better, end of story.

Similarly, arguing ONLY about # of wins completely ignores the differing number of opportunities between teams or how good they are by other metrics. A power conference team like say Vanderbilt might have more good wins than a mid-major like Monmouth. But what does that mean? The single largest factor in number of quality wins is # of opportunities, not team strength. And even worse, Vanderbilt got roughly half their opportunities at home where they have an inherent advantage. Vanderbilt had 7 top 100 wins, Monmouth had 3. However, Monmouth went 3-4 with 1 game in 7 at home. Vanderbilt went 7-10, with 8 of those 17 at home. Shrink to Top50 and Monmouth was 1-1 (neither at home) while Vanderbilt was 2-7 with 3 at home.

The stance taken by the committee this year is that mid-majors are not welcome, and they chose to over-value a stat that says a top-30 team that happens to be a mid-major is less deserving than a team outside the top-60 that happens to play in a power conference. I think a very good argument could be made that Tulsa, for instance, shouldn't have been in the tournament even if the cut-line was 64, given that virtually every metric has them at 64+ (Kenpom, Sagarin, BPI, Warren Nolan, OOC SOS, RPI).

Very nice analysis.

[kcshocker11]

Lets Just Kick Ass!:barbershop_quartet_

[ShockRef]

Also who did the mayor of Dayton bribe to get these games every year at the expense and inconvenience of everybody else. Why can't Vandy and us just play in Providence?

Lax,
There is an answer to your question.
The nickel response is Dayton agreed to accept the first extra game (between #64 & 65) when absolutely nobody wanted to host it. The game usually consisted of a SWAC vs NEC titanic struggle.

The NCAA approached other sites and had zero response due to the hassle, cost and lack of local ticket sales. Dayton embraced it and has always handled it with class.

When it became more popular due to the increase in teams (especially the last 4 at-large) all of a sudden cities lined up to host.

In one of the rare times the NCAA demonstrated some common sense (and decency), they agreed to keep it in Dayton.

That is all.

[Aargh]

Providence is one of the most expensive travel destinations there is.

When I used to be involved with darts, the national championships were always in Providence. We sponsored a youth darter to go to the nationals and sent a parent with them.

If you want a better seed for the Shox than UNI got, then maybe the Shox should not have lost 2 games to UNI.