Landry Shamet Injured

[Shock Top]

I think he comes back and plays. Got to put the best team you possibly can on the court in March (and April)

[WSUwatcher]

If he comes back and the team goes far in the tournament, I think he and everyone else will consider it "worth it" even if he plays less than a dozen games.

Well, Baker only played eight after his return in 2013 (for a total of 18), and he and everyone else certainly considered that worth it.

I doubt that if the decision is for Landry to come back this season anyone is going to worry too much that he only managed to play three before his injury -- the emphasis will be on what he does afterwards, especially if he can be an impact player out of nowhere the way Ron was.

[Steeleshocker]

All the talk about a redshirt for Shamet assumes he's going to be here for a fifth year. That's not a given.

[jdshock]

I also think that we only have a 3-guard lineup Marshall trusts right now, and I'd like to be able to give Fred and Ron more rest instead of having one of them in at every point in competitive games.

I think we will still see either Fred and/or Ron in at every point during a competitive game even if Landry comes back. Their knowledge of the game is off the charts, and we benefit so much from having one of them in the game. I still think Landry comes back because he will allow them to sit for longer periods of time, and I think your analysis about the defender mismatches is right on. I just find it hard to believe that--in March--we will see lineups without either Ron or Fred if the game is competitive, even for relatively short periods of time.

No one has offered me millions of dollars for my basketball input, though, so I won't feel bad if I'm wrong.

[shockmonster]

I don't think any of us know this, since 3G and Landry don't seem to have made a decision yet.

I agree with this. Marshall hasn't made a decision yet and will wait to do so and his decision will be made in a month or so based on what helps us this year. It was different than four years ago though. Baker came in right away and started immediately. Landry won't come in and start and Conners playing time will cut into Landrys too

[wufan]

I think we will still see either Fred and/or Ron in at every point during a competitive game even if Landry comes back. Their knowledge of the game is off the charts, and we benefit so much from having one of them in the game. I still think Landry comes back because he will allow them to sit for longer periods of time, and I think your analysis about the defender mismatches is right on. I just find it hard to believe that--in March--we will see lineups without either Ron or Fred if the game is competitive, even for relatively short periods of time.

No one has offered me millions of dollars for my basketball input, though, so I won't feel bad if I'm wrong.

Normally I agree, but Landry is special.

[jdshock]

Normally I agree, but Landry is special.

Ron and Fred are seniors, and this is their last opportunity to win the tournament. I'm not sure HCGM will be able to keep them off the floor. In a close game in March, they're both going to play 35 minutes. Fred and Landry is a better lineup than CF and Landry (similarly, Ron and Landry is a better lineup than CF and Landry). Landry is special, but he's not currently better than either Ron or Fred. Like I said, I'm not going to call into the Coach's Show if I'm wrong. I just think Ron and Fred are too good to keep both of them on the bench during a close game in March.

[im4wsu]

The key to allowing Ron and Fred to play enormous minutes in post-season contests is to "control" their minutes in the 17 - 18 games plus practices remaining in the regular season. IMHO that is more critical than whether LS can return and play 10-15 minutes.

I am going to preface this next statement with the FACT that I am totally enamored with LS and his future, in an entirely different universe of expectations than I have for CF in the best of circumstances.

Realistically, LS's performances were 27 minutes versus Charleston Southern and 22 Minutes versus Emporia State. He fouled out in 4 minutes against Tulsa. Frankly I was stunned to see that when I looked it up just now. My memory log, I guess, focused on the good and not the not-so-good. I think we need to temper out judgement as to how much he may contribute post-season since his one outing against any competition was not noteworthy.

Ron Baker played VCU (28 min), Tulsa (21) Iowa (28) and Tennessee (29) scoring 9, 2, 8 and 6 in those games. He shot 3-8; 0-7, 3-7 and 2-6 from the field. Not surprisingly, he did better in the other early contests. He was fantastic in the post-season games, though.

	Top 4	Other 6	Post-Season
GS	4	6	5
MP	106	145	218
FG	8	15	22
FGA	28	35	50
FG%	0.286	0.429	0.44
2P	3	4	8
2PA	8	5	16
2P%	0.375	0.8	0.5
3P	5	11	14
3PA	20	30	34
3P%	0.25	0.367	0.412
FT	4	7	26
FTA	6	10	29
FT%	0.667	0.7	0.897
ORB	6	5	11
DRB	4	11	21
TRB	10	16	32
AST	7	11	14
STL	6	5	3
BLK	0	3	2
TOV	2	10	11
PF	8	10	21
PTS	25	48	84

[pie n eye]

Temper our judgement based on one game? You're a stats guy, I would think you respect sample size more than anyone.

I think the fact that he fouled out of that game needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He was the victim of some highly questionable calls.

When healthy Landry was a mature, long, athletic kid with as good of an all around game that I've seen from a Freshman since Fred or Ron. If he comes back I think he will make a huge difference for this team.

[im4wsu]

Temper our judgement based on one game? You're a stats guy, I would think you respect sample size more than anyone.

I think the fact that he fouled out of that game needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He was the victim of some highly questionable calls.

When healthy Landry was a mature, long, athletic kid with as good of an all around game that I've seen from a Freshman since Fred or Ron. If he comes back I think he will make a huge difference for this team.

As a stat guy, 100% of available data is all there is. I didn't selectively throw out any. Just saying that RB had somewhat of a similar track record, so I stand by my statement that I EXPECT a whole lot more out of Landry than I ever have out of CF. Just for me it takes more than TWO games and discount one game to proclaim LS as the RB of the Final Four post-season. Just as I am hoping CF continues to get over his jitters and start consistently canning the wide open 3's now that he's hit a few difficult 3's.

[shockmonster]

It will all be based on Gregg's view of our chemistry moving forward at that time. There will be no way Imo that Landry el have as large a role as Baker did.

[ShockdaWorld]

It will all be based on Gregg's view of our chemistry moving forward at that time. There will be no way Imo that Landry el have as large a role as Baker did.

I agree with this, but only because Ron didn't have Ron and Fred in front of him.

[WSUwatcher]

Good point, Shockda, and that's part of what I had in mind (although didn't say as succinctly) when I referred earlier to WSU's rotation at the time Landry is physically ready to return. There was an obvious opening for Baker as a potential starter and the best SG on the team once he was able to resume playing. There's likely to be an opening for Landry when he returns, too -- but it won't be as the best SG on the team.

[COS Shocker]

One point to consider is that IF Landry comes back his contribution could come by giving 3G the ability to play Ron some minutes at the 3 and play a line-up with Fred, Landry and Ron. This works well if Zach can play some minutes at 4, talk about a stellar defensive team that can also shoot and be a better offensive team.

I think 3G envisioned playing more 3 guard line-ups but with TT not ready to play prime time minutes and Landry injured that has restricted his ability to do so. Against MVC teams we can play a 3 guard line-up w/ Connor, but we are limited, against more athletic teams where they take advantage of Connor's size. Right now based upon getting Ron and Fred some rest there is no need to play a 3 guard line-up as we don't have the necessary depth. That changes if Landry comes back. I would guess if Landry is ready by the middle of Feb to contribute he plays, if it is later it gets questionable. As others have mentioned no he won't have as much of a role as Ron did, but still a significant role in the scenario outlined above. Also I don't know that you can count on Landry being here for a 5th year based upon 3G's comments on how Landry gets it. As great as Fred and Ron are and they stayed all the way through Landry is more athletic and will project better at the next level even if he never matches Fred and Ron's achievements.

[shockmonster]

I agree with this, but only because Ron didn't have Ron and Fred in front of him.

This has been my point too. I still think that the improvement of CF will affect the decision. I lean toward Landry playing if physically ready.