Landry Shamet Injured

[asiseeit]

Ron just hasn't looked like himself OFFENSIVELY lately - just my opinion but others seemed to
have noticed, as well. I have offered two thoughts. First, I believe losing ten pounds may, I say
may, have weakened him a little physically. Second, I suggested that playing so hard on D can
affect your shooting touch and no one plays harder defensively than Ron. I don't want him to
relax on defense so my own suggestion would to be more short breathers and when we can afford
it score wise have him defend a less potent scorer more often. I am hoping the week off after the
MVC tournament will allow him to gain a couple pounds and rest.

[proshox]

I still think he hurt himself on that jumper. If you are tired it isn't going to effect every jump. His lift has all but disappeared in the last three games.

[OregonShocker]

Agree with this. Reducing RB participation 5 minutes a game amounts to 35 minutes for the remaining regular-season schedule. That cannot really be much of a factor, can it? Give him one day off from practice would more than compensate (2 consecutive hours versus 35 minutes spread over three weeks)

True this. NBA substitution patterns are pretty consistent, giving starters part of each quarter with constant rest time. (3-4 min at end of first quarter and 3-4 min at beginning of second; repeat for 3 and 4 quarters). The only coach that consistently gives players days off is Pop in SA; he has the bench to allow this. College game, with halves instead of quarters, and shorter benches (8-9 play per game instead of 10+) doesn't allow this sub pattern consistently. So, coaching staff need creative ways of giving starters rest, but that's during games. Off days may be easier to manage. Honestly, how hard does RB need to practice the day before Drake? (I risk sounding like AI with "practice"! LOL!)

[pogo]

Oh I see now. I just didn't realize we were seeing if RB was NBA ready. My bad for thinking we should rest him at all.

[OregonShocker]

Oh I see now. I just didn't realize we were seeing if RB was NBA ready. My bad for thinking we should rest him at all.

I'm merely stating I don't believe the "he needs rest because he plays so much" argument. He's not 12. At a high D1 level, and with our training staff, he should not have his legs fade out and effect his shot after 20 scattered games. By the 3rd OT of ONE game? Ok. But now? Nah. Not buying it.

[WSUwatcher]

All the talk about RB having no legs and needing to rest is puzzling; NBA season is 82 games, often with back to backs with travel. RB is old enough to be NBA ready now; how will he fare if he can't handle the college schedule? I don't buy it. Either that or he's got no hope of NBA play.

NBA talk is a red herring, in my view -- lots of college players struggle to adjust to that schedule. But as for college, Baker is playing more than any other Shocker, with a stretch of extreme minutes and responsibilities caused by Fred's injury, and he's coming off a more taxing off-season than anyone else. He's not used to that workload, and it's not surprising that it could possibly have an impact. Plus, he's playing against college players who also have the same game schedule as he does, without having tried out for and played in the PanAm Games, and without having to spend time being both the #1 PG and #1 SG for their teams, as Ron was for a while against some quality opponents.

Again, I don't know if my theory holds water or not, and there are plenty of people actually associated with the Shocker program who are better equipped to judge his condition than I am, or to judge whether he's injured in some subtle way as proshox speculates. But it couldn't hurt having Shamet available to back him up and take some minutes, and playing against lesser Valley teams would also be a perfect way for Landry to work himself back into form -- which is what caused me to raise the point in the first place. (By the way, I also like im4's idea of skipping a day of practice and doing mental rather than physical game prep -- but again, that's something the coaches and trainers are more than capable of judging, too.)

[OregonShocker]

NBA talk is a red herring, in my view -- lots of college players struggle to adjust to that schedule. But as for college, Baker is playing more than any other Shocker, with a stretch of extreme minutes and responsibilities caused by Fred's injury, and he's coming off a more taxing off-season than anyone else. He's not used to that workload, and it's not surprising that it could possibly have an impact. Plus, he's playing against college players who also have the same game schedule as he does, without having tried out for and played in the PanAm Games, and without having to spend time being both the #1 PG and #1 SG for their teams, as Ron was for a while against some quality opponents.

Again, I don't know if my theory holds water or not, and there are plenty of people actually associated with the Shocker program who are better equipped to judge his condition than I am, or to judge whether he's injured in some subtle way as proshox speculates. But it couldn't hurt having Shamet available to back him up and take some minutes, and playing against lesser Valley teams would also be a perfect way for Landry to work himself back into form -- which is what caused me to raise the point in the first place. (By the way, I also like im4's idea of skipping a day of practice and doing mental rather than physical game prep -- but again, that's something the coaches and trainers are more than capable of judging, too.)

So why doesn't NBA shooting deteriorate 20 games into the season? Aren't they tired, too? Obviously, no. IMO, one of the differences in college coaching and NBA coaching is substitution patterns. If you watch NBA games, you'll notice a difference in sub patterns between coaches, but the coach's individual pattern is pretty set, barring injuries or fouls. In college, it's often when the player asks for sub, does something wrong, or fouls/injuries. The closest college ever got was UK's mass sub pattern (wave, I think he called it). This lack of pattern substituting, coupled with halves instead of quarters, I believe leads to more player fatigue than playing 22 games. I understand there are obstacles to colleges (even HCGM) using a similar system, and having quality subs is a big part of that obstacle; LS's return could help in that regard. But saying RB's current slump is fatigue and rest/LS return will solve it is not accurate, IMO. More to it than that.

[pie n eye]

It seems to me like there has been a pretty set rotation with Baker, FVV, and Frankamp.

[Cdizzle]

So, can Baker get a redshirt if he's too tired to play all these minutes?

[OregonShocker]

It seems to me like there has been a pretty set rotation with Baker, FVV, and Frankamp.

I mean not so much player patterns as sub patterns; i.e., FVV out after 8 min regardless of score, fatigue, fouls, etc. and back in with 8 min to go. Most NBA coaches have a pretty set routine; college coaches, not so much. And maybe that's for good reason. But, I hear a lot of fans complain, "Why did he pull out so-and-so?! They were playing SO WELL!" without really understanding these principles.

[Dave Stalwart]

So, can Baker get a redshirt if he's too tired to play all these minutes?

I'm wondering if he can use Landry's medical redshirt.

[Cdizzle]

I'm wondering if he can use Landry's medical redshirt.

Oh, that's interesting. Good thinking. What's your guess at what that rule is? Please, don't link to the actual rulebook. It clutters things up.

[Stickboy46]

Oh, that's interesting. Good thinking. What's your guess at what that rule is? Please, don't link to the actual rulebook. It clutters things up.

Do Maroon shirts count? I think Missouri State has plenty of "WICHITA is not a STATE" shirts that we can hand out to the team. Everyone get a year!

[Cdizzle]

Do Maroon shirts count? I think Missouri State has plenty of "WICHITA is not a STATE" shirts that we can hand out to the team. Everyone get a year!

I think it's been pretty well established that everyone wearing those shirts is worthless.

[Dave Stalwart]

Oh, that's interesting. Good thinking. What's your guess at what that rule is? Please, don't link to the actual rulebook. It clutters things up.

I mean, if Landry doesn't want it, someone can use it right? How about I just skip any research and post the entire rule book?

I hope for Landry's sake that he is NBA starter material because if he's not, he won't live up to the hype he's got. At this rate, he's supposed to come in on September 15th and average 10 pts, 5 bounds, 4 assists and 0 turnovers a game for the remainder of the season and carry us to a national title.

I'm not saying he won't.