Lutz, Marshall, Self and Turgeon

[owenc]

I'm curious how KU makes less money if they play a single additional game away from AFH. The place - like CKA - is basically exclusively students and season ticket holders. Are KU Williams Fund or WSU SASO members paying a different amount each year based on the incremental volume of home games that season? It is a rhetorical question because the answer is patently obvious. KU, and WSU, are bringing in (via ticket and mandatory donation revenues) essentially the same amount of money in a given year regardless of if they have 17 or 18 games at home, all else held constant.

Actually in the case of KU season tickets at least it does not work that way. For starters, Williams Fund mandatory donation is $100 so that is a tiny part of the equation. Season tickets are around $2500 but it does vary based on number of games that year.

Each ticket is individually priced and KU not only charges season ticket holders by the game but differing amounts based on who the opponent is. The Iowa State game costs 5 times what an early non-conference game costs. Even the prices between conference games differ. That doesn't even include things like concessions which are probably 1/2 million a game.

KU basketball made nearly 10 million in profit last year. They are very much about the $$$. One of the reasons I've been to a lot more WSU games in the past 5 years than to KU ones. It just got too crazy.

[another shocker]

I think you miss the point though. He isn't defending Self, he is expressing his opinion as a knowledgeable third party. Sure he has a history with both programs but what he is saying is that objectively it doesn't make sense for KU to schedule WSU.

Because it doesn't. And that has nothing to do with who beat who last or anything else directly related to basketball. It is about $$$. Both directly from the money lost by scheduling a 1 and 1 versus just home games and from recruiting. KU scheduled WSU for 10 years but that was in a kinder gentler day when the almighty dollar didn't dictate such things.

KU took a 35 point beatdown this year from a Temple team that is playing in the NIT but you are crazy if you don't think they will schedule them again. Its a chance to play in Philadelphia and get exposure in an important market where they don't normally get it.

It isn't like there are lot of these to work with. This year KU played 1 and 1s against Florida, Georgetown and Temple and round robin type things against Kentucky and Michigan State. Giving one of those up to schedule WSU just makes no sense, financial or otherwise.

And lets not forget, the series from the 80s and 90s didn't just peter out. It ended in a hot mess that frankly was mostly WSUs fault. I know that was forever ago, but given that it doesn't make much sense to start with such things matter.

I'd love to see KU/WSU every year again. Hell, I'd love to see WSU and about anyone good at this point but that's just a tough order in the current state of things. WSU desperately needs to get into a better conference. That would go a long way towards improving their schedule. Both conference and non.

Chris

\

what a crock of sh*t.

[Cdizzle]

Oh I see. So I assume KU would be up for playing WSU at a neutral site in Philly?

Or does your logic fall apart again then?

I don't care. At this point, I'm glad they don't play. WSU doesn't need superbowled by any more teams in a season. But I do love listening to the rationale people will give.

[AndShock]

Whoever had 3 hours on how long it would take owenc to show up you can claim your prize at the ticket window.

[another shocker]

Oh I see. So I assume KU would be up for playing WSU at a neutral site in Philly?

Or does your logic fall apart again then?

I don't care. At this point, I'm glad they don't play. WSU doesn't need superbowled by any more teams in a season. But I do love listening to the rationale people will give.

you got that right. superbowl and all

[Play Angry]

KU is a loss on Sunday away from having "something to gain," and any Jayhawk fan who thinks otherwise is kidding himself. That sound you hear after the game will be their stranglehold on occasional ICT blue chips being blown to smithereens by a Gregg Marshall captained Apache helicopter.

Bill Self's nightmare is losing this game and Conner Frankamp enjoying success back home. Maybe neither will happen. But if both of those things come to pass, he will be the underdog when the next few Perry Ellis types roll through the system.

That won't sit well.

[jocoshock]

Not one of Lutz's better articles...

[SHOCKvalue]

Actually in the case of KU season tickets at least it does not work that way. For starters, Williams Fund mandatory donation is $100 so that is a tiny part of the equation. Season tickets are around $2500 but it does vary based on number of games that year.

Each ticket is individually priced and KU not only charges season ticket holders by the game but differing amounts based on who the opponent is. The Iowa State game costs 5 times what an early non-conference game costs. Even the prices between conference games differ. That doesn't even include things like concessions which are probably 1/2 million a game.

KU basketball made nearly 10 million in profit last year. They are very much about the $$$. One of the reasons I've been to a lot more WSU games in the past 5 years than to KU ones. It just got too crazy.

I'd love to see a link or substantiation of the above included in the top 2 paragraphs. Nothing I can find or see indicates that KU's season ticket cost is anything other than X mandatory donation plus Y seat cost (like basically all other programs). And the Y seat costs are nice round numbers this year it looks like, as it is every year. The variable cost based on either number of home games in a given year, or based on opponent (would a variable cost even matter if it is lumped into a season ticker price?) is a claim I can find no proof of. The $2500 figure for only season tickets is also false (they went for $925 to $1600 this season), not that the minimum WEF donation plus season ticket wouldn't eclipse that for many KU season ticket holders.

As for your last paragraph, your also off by a very large margin with regards to the first sentence, in KU's favor.

[Play Angry]

Not one of Lutz's better articles...

Well he didn't write it. It was Rustin Dodd.

Someone should probably change the title.

[Capitol Shock II]

Yes that 40 point blow out to Kentucky was much more beneficial than playing WSU.

If the teams refuse to play each other then let's pick a Saturday at Intrust and have KU play Missouri at Noon, KSU play Northern Iowa at 3 and WSU play Creighton at 6pm and see what happens to our local economy that weekend.

[jocoshock]

KU is a loss on Sunday away from having "something to gain," and any Jayhawk fan who thinks otherwise is kidding himself. That sound you hear after the game will be their stranglehold on occasional ICT blue chips being blown to smithereens by a Gregg Marshall captained Apache helicopter.

Bill Self's nightmare is losing this game and Conner Frankamp enjoying success back home. Maybe neither will happen. But if both of those things come to pass, he will be the underdog when the next few Perry Ellis types roll through the system.

That won't sit well.

Both teams will be highly motivated. Expect Kamikaze ball from the hawks, driving the lanes like Japanese Zeros trying to sink the USS Carter and USS Shaqwall..

The Ankle Breaker, Shot Maker, and Rim Shaker need to bring the SHOCK and Awe..

[Shock Top]

Oh I see. So I assume KU would be up for playing WSU at a neutral site in Philly?

Why settle for Philly? Why not play it in MSG! (Or maybe that is not a big enough market either)

[jocoshock]

Yes that 40 point blow out to Kentucky was much more beneficial than playing WSU.

If the teams refuse to

A ride on the Hindenburg..

Oh, the humanity...

[another shocker]

KU is a loss on Sunday away from having "something to gain," and any Jayhawk fan who thinks otherwise is kidding himself. That sound you hear after the game will be their stranglehold on occasional ICT blue chips being blown to smithereens by a Gregg Marshall captained Apache helicopter.

Bill Self's nightmare is losing this game and Conner Frankamp enjoying success back home. Maybe neither will happen. But if both of those things come to pass, he will be the underdog when the next few Perry Ellis types roll through the system.

That won't sit well.

sidenote: hoosiers and aggies will do everything in their power to ixnay the nabootnay, on top of the usual tourney motivations.

i think red-nose beaker lutz sent a column/plea, bulletin board material, to the hoosiers for their proper motivation?

thanks a lot, bob- signed, mark turgeon

[Royalno5]

I notice that Maryland has not been a hurry to schedule the Shockers. Probably because it would be too "emotional" for Mark. The reason KU was so willing to play us four times in the ninety's was because Antoine and X were gone and we were down. If Gregg would ever leave and WSU would slip I am sure Bill would be more than happy to schedule us. I always admired Larry Brown for his willingness to come to Wichita. It is time to start raising billboard money.