Lutz, Marshall, Self and Turgeon

[pinstripers]

WSU will never be Kansas, and NEVER have their tradition............and KU will never be Kentucky, and they must surely hate that.

[Dave Stalwart]

I wasn't bothered with Mark's comments because he has been on both sides of it. I can guarantee that he REALLY wanted to play KU when he coached here.

As for scheduling KU, I will say that if we beat them on Sunday, we will get a scheduled game in the next five years. Why? For the same reason that the Border War would have continued if Missouri wouldn't have blown that big lead in the final game between the two at AFH. KU wouldn't let the opponent get the last word. They'd settle the score and then discontinue once they get the last laugh.

I actually thought this too. If we get the game, and we win, now the monkey is on their back. The debate over whether or not they "gain" anything from the game loses a little strength. It will shift more towards "here's something you can gain from playing us...proving you are actually better because last time we played, you weren't"

That's not going to sit well with anyone. If we win. The game will get scheduled. If we continue to win, it will become a series someday. They won't be comfortable with it otherwise.

[wusphlash]

I admit to being one who had a chip on my shoulder about KU not playing us. I will still tell my KU friends "just play the damn game". However, with all our recent success I find myself not caring so much anymore. To quote Pedro Cerano, " FU KU, I do it myself.

[kochHead]

I don't have a problem with his viewpoint, I completely understand it. But I have a huge problem with him saying it. He knows better, yet he decided to take sides.

I wish we could play Indiana, then KU, then Maryland, then UK...if we won all these it would be the fulfillment of some unimaginable dream. That being said we have an opportunity to make at least 3 of the 4 happen in this current tournament and that in itself would be unreal.

[Wichita Muskie]

I grew up in Louisville as a Louisville fan, and at the time Kentucky refused to schedule Louisville. It was about 25 years between meetings. Louisville went to 5 Final Fours and won a national championship in 11 years, but Kentucky did not agree to schedule Louisville in the regular season until the teams met in the NCAA Tournament in 1983 and Louisville beat Kentucky. Here's a clip of the CBS intro to that game that delved into the topic of the two not playing each other (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg3WzsFtOtE). From my perspective, it's just silly for two Division I programs that close together not to play. In Louisville and Kentucky's case, whatever fears UK had about the series were apparently completely unfounded. In the 11 years pre-series, Louisville went to 5 Final Fours. In the 31 year since they re-started the series: 4 Final Fours for Louisville. So clearly the series didn't "make" Louisville's program or harm UK's in any way. They've won 3 national titles since then, and we all know about this year. So whatever fears KU has about playing WSU on a regular basis are likely to be misguided. Their egos just might get hurt now and again.

[AZ Shocker]

So whatever fears KU has about playing WSU on a regular basis are likely to be misguided. Their egos just might get hurt now and again.

Yes but I've seen them with their egos hurt before. It's pretty gross.

[owenc]

In some manner, Coach Turgeon became a part of the story. Coach Turgeon is quite sympathetic to Coach Self.

I have always been a supporter and defender of Coach Turgeon except when he stole a recruit away from WSU.

I am quiet ticked that Coach Turgeon butted in and defended Coach Self, his college days not withstanding.

In my view, Coach Turgeon should have resisted his urge to blab about the issue.

I think you miss the point though. He isn't defending Self, he is expressing his opinion as a knowledgeable third party. Sure he has a history with both programs but what he is saying is that objectively it doesn't make sense for KU to schedule WSU.

Because it doesn't. And that has nothing to do with who beat who last or anything else directly related to basketball. It is about $$$. Both directly from the money lost by scheduling a 1 and 1 versus just home games and from recruiting. KU scheduled WSU for 10 years but that was in a kinder gentler day when the almighty dollar didn't dictate such things.

KU took a 35 point beatdown this year from a Temple team that is playing in the NIT but you are crazy if you don't think they will schedule them again. Its a chance to play in Philadelphia and get exposure in an important market where they don't normally get it.

It isn't like there are lot of these to work with. This year KU played 1 and 1s against Florida, Georgetown and Temple and round robin type things against Kentucky and Michigan State. Giving one of those up to schedule WSU just makes no sense, financial or otherwise.

And lets not forget, the series from the 80s and 90s didn't just peter out. It ended in a hot mess that frankly was mostly WSUs fault. I know that was forever ago, but given that it doesn't make much sense to start with such things matter.

I'd love to see KU/WSU every year again. Hell, I'd love to see WSU and about anyone good at this point but that's just a tough order in the current state of things. WSU desperately needs to get into a better conference. That would go a long way towards improving their schedule. Both conference and non.

Chris

[pie n eye]

"Kinder, gentler day when the almighty dollar didn't dictate such things."

Thanks for the LOL of the day.

[SHOCKvalue]

I find it hilarious when the "exposure" and "brand" cards get thrown out by the Beakers with regards to scheduling.

KU has a basketball history to be damn proud of, but to assume anyone in this country outside of a very small sliver of the population that follows college basketball knows or much less cares about the UK's and UNC's of the world is irrational and absurd. Walk up to 15 people on the street in Philly the day after the KU beat down and I'd be shocked if more than one of them knew who the Jayhawks were or where they come from, and the one who does is probably going to follow up by wondering aloud if they have indoor plumbing back in Kansas, or is it Kentucky, or is it Kolorado, or...

[owenc]

I find it hilarious when the "exposure" and "brand" cards get thrown out by the Beakers with regards to scheduling. KU has a basketball history to be damn proud of, but to assume anyone in this country outside of a very small sliver of the population that follows college basketball knows or much less cares about the UK's and UNC's of the world is irrational and absurd. Walk up to 15 people on the street in Philly the day after the KU beat down and I'd be shocked if more than one of them knew who the Jayhawks were or where they come from, and the one who does is probably going to follow up by wondering aloud if they have indoor plumbing where the team comes from.

Well that wasn't the type of exposure I was talking about. Bill Self doesn't care about the person walking down the street in Philadelphia. He cares about the AAU or high school coach that follows basketball in Philly. Those people very much know who Temple played the night before and were probably at the game.

Is this the end all be all of scheduling? Certainly not. But such exposer is certainly worth a lot more than playing in Wichita would be. Of those same 15 people on the street in Wichita, all of them know who KU is and 10 of them hate them.

Chris

[Shock Top]

After reading Turgeon's comments, I reminds me how thankful I am he departed for "greener pastures". He accomplished a lot, but he was NEVER going to be truly happy at WSU. I love HCGM's "us against the world" attitude; little guy vs the big boys.. It's a method proven to be successful and one that has been much more enjoyable and pleasurable.

Also, Syracuse never leaves northern NY and that doesn't seem to hurt their "brand".

[Ta town]

I think you miss the point though. He isn't defending Self, he is expressing his opinion as a knowledgeable third party. Sure he has a history with both programs but what he is saying is that objectively it doesn't make sense for KU to schedule WSU.

Because it doesn't. And that has nothing to do with who beat who last or anything else directly related to basketball. It is about $$$. Both directly from the money lost by scheduling a 1 and 1 versus just home games and from recruiting. KU scheduled WSU for 10 years but that was in a kinder gentler day when the almighty dollar didn't dictate such things.

KU took a 35 point beatdown this year from a Temple team that is playing in the NIT but you are crazy if you don't think they will schedule them again. Its a chance to play in Philadelphia and get exposure in an important market where they don't normally get it.

It isn't like there are lot of these to work with. This year KU played 1 and 1s against Florida, Georgetown and Temple and round robin type things against Kentucky and Michigan State. Giving one of those up to schedule WSU just makes no sense, financial or otherwise.

And lets not forget, the series from the 80s and 90s didn't just peter out. It ended in a hot mess that frankly was mostly WSUs fault. I know that was forever ago, but given that it doesn't make much sense to start with such things matter.

I'd love to see KU/WSU every year again. Hell, I'd love to see WSU and about anyone good at this point but that's just a tough order in the current state of things. WSU desperately needs to get into a better conference. That would go a long way towards improving their schedule. Both conference and non.

Chris

I couldn't give two s**** if KU/WSU ever play, same for KSU as far as that goes, I just want WSU to play as many quality teams as possible. However I just don't buy the arguments made why they don't. WSU could easily replace one of the lessor teams KU/KSU plays on their schedule without sacrificing their big time OOC match ups.

Lets be honest here, the reason WSU/KU/KSU don't play is too much insecurity/pride ALL AROUND, not just one particular party.

KU says they have nothing to gain. Which from their perspective is somewhat true. However last year I know what they would have potentially gained had they played WSU. If they had played each other and won, they would have gained that 1 seed WSU got.

[Kung Wu]

I guess I just don't understand why so many here care so much about being validated by KU scheduling a home-and-home with us.

I don't feel the least bit of need to be "validated" by KU scheduling us. I do however want an opportunity to shut their obnoxious fan base's pie holes up about who the best team in the state is.

I also think two Top 25 teams squaring off in-state would be an excellent boost to our economy. We continue to pay the taxes that funnel to our state schools, so we have earned the right to speak our mind about the match-up -- heck even the KU _fans_ want the game. The only people that don't are the KU administration. If we are going to continue funding state schools, those schools' sports should at the very least generate a kickback to the local economies by playing each other.

[SHOCKvalue]

I'm curious how KU makes less money if they play a single additional game away from AFH. The place - like CKA - is basically exclusively students and season ticket holders. Are KU Williams Fund or WSU SASO members paying a different amount each year based on the incremental volume of home games that season? It is a rhetorical question because the answer is patently obvious. KU, and WSU, are bringing in (via ticket and mandatory donation revenues) essentially the same amount of money in a given year regardless of if they have 17 or 18 games at home, all else held constant.

[Kung Wu]

WSU will never be Kansas, and NEVER have their tradition............and KU will never be Kentucky, and they must surely hate that.

I just called in and had your Alumni Association membership renounced.

Carry on.