#15 Wichita State vs. Indiana State GAME THREAD

[shoxlax]

Last years team of our bombs away threats (Ragland, Kyles, and Smith) and a good post passer (Stutz) would've destroyed the Trees last night.

They are not a good match up for us especially when we look unprepared for their game plan.

[Shoxfan11]

There was one play where CH had Eitel posted up down low, and they STILL refused to pass it to him.

That is ridiculous.

[CBB_Fan]

More than anything, I just find it funny that you have so much to say after losses. I think it's cute.

Should I think it is cute that you appear to be obsessing over me (seriously, you had your signature and profile dedicated to me), or that you constantly try to provoke an emotional reaction from me?

I don't think it is any surprise I speak more after a loss. When we when, I look forward to the next game. When we lose, I look back at what happened. No mystery to that, it is human nature. Besides which, you tend to ignore my posts except after a loss. I have 9 posts with the last 14 hours, but 13 more within the last 2 days. It isn't like I never post unless we lose and then get 100 posts after every loss.

[im4wsu]

I won't read this thread. The performance sucked -- passes hitting guys in the chest because they weren't looking. Every loose ball ISU got a time out. Can't make baskets from 6 inches.

Speaking of inches, the inch of snow on the way home was blowing like it was Terre Haute--couldn't see the road. Sucked.

Well, if anything could go wrong, it did. Even the box score posted on goshockers.com is a duplicate of the bradley box score, not the ISU box score. Guess I just have to conclude it wasn't WSU's day.

[ShockerFever]

More than anything, I just find it funny that you have so much to say after losses. I think it's cute.

[shock]

I think the emotions here pretty much sum everything up...

[CBB_Fan]

Shocker, CBB in here with 9 paragraph novels.

Yup, must be a loss.

Please post constructively. This post, and many others directed towards me, have been the very definition of troll posts. Even my "paragraph novels" have been mostly constructive posts that aid discussion, and often those posts mirror the same points you yourself have made.

[ShockerFever]

Shocker. CBB in here with 9 paragraph novels.

Yup, must be a loss.

[SubGod22]

I've noticed it a lot lately and it becomes even more obvious in a loss. I really like DWill but his flat-out refusal to feed the post or sometimes not even bat an eyelash at it is really starting to piss me off. I dunno how many times post players like would establish amazing position, especially on a break, and watch DWill just simply ignore it. Very old and tiresome. It's not a very great formula to win basketball games against good teams. MA is guilty of this too, but it's really prevalent with DWill. The **** needs to change. Quick. I'm not a coach but one must hope Marshall sees this when they go over hours of game tape.

I'm waiting for Hall or Early to have a Stutz moment and when DWill wants them to give up good/great position posting up to come set him a screen so he can jack up a three, to refuse and scream at him to give him the damn ball. I was so proud of Garrett when he did that and would love to see someone in the post do it again.

I think Williams is shooting around 28% from deep. He doesn't need to be shooting 7 times a game from out there if he can't find his shot. Armstead is down to 33% or so and jacking up 8 shots. Unless you're hitting, that's way too many for someone with their percentages. If Wiggy shoots 8 from deep I'm okay with it as that's what he does best.

FEED THE POST. At the very least, LOOK at the post and pretend you're thinking about it!

[ShockerFever]

When MA looks at the game tape I hope he looks at how a consistently quality point guard handles his team. Odum didn't have a sparkling stat line, but he orchestrates all of what the trees do on offense. He looks unorthodox, but he gets to places Mal doesn't, thus creates quality scoring opportunities. Mal takes more three's off the dribble than any guard we have ever had. If they were coming off ball screens that would be one thing, but they aren't. When we aren't rock solid on defense and rebound, this team struggles due to our guard play. Get it fixed now.

This has also bothered me lately as well. Again, it gets even further magnified with losses. 90% of the 3 pointers MA takes can literally be taken at any point of time, every time down the floor. He acts like it's 5th grade HORSE. Just chuck and chuck. He needs to find a dictionary and see what the main purpose of a point guard is. Shooting is not high on the list of what they do, especially when you're not that good at it.

For how great a defender and ball stealer MA gets credit for, he's worse as a guard that takes bad shots and turns the ball over, thus neutralizing something he does best at.

[xazshox]

2-3 Zone Defense

We sit in Section 124, row 22. While watching WSU play last night, I was reminded of the movie, "Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid" years ago.They were being chased by a posse & they kept saying, "Who are those guys"? That's what I thought about WSU last night, "Who are those guys"? It was a different team than I was used to seeing play.

Is it possible to run screens against a 2-3 Zone? Wiggins went into the game several times, but he never got an open look. I agree with what others pointed out here. Williams would get the ball & stand there with it looking inside without doing anything with it. Carl Hall would be open for a bit, but the defense would then surround him & it would be too late to get him the ball then. The whole offense was pathetic. People all around me were yelling, "Move"!

[shoxlax]

Not sure which assistant had the scout for them but I'm sure today I wouldn't want to be him.

[SubGod22]

Cotton was our best three point shooter last night. For whatever that's worth.

[CBB_Fan]

Well just using simple math, an overload has no other option but working IF(and only if) the ball rotation and passes are crisp, which a lot of time they are not.

Definitely. Also, we need to find a way to get Cotton involved (maybe he could find his shooting touch from last year?), because teams are definitely exploiting him to cheat on defense. Indiana State did an excellent job scouting us. From what I saw they emphasized:

1. Minimizing interior passing and offensive rebounds
2. Keeping a body close to Early and Wiggins at all times on perimeter, so that they cannot get open shots
3. Playing off of Williams to prevent the drive
4. Cheating on Cotton to give more time for the zone to recover
5. Doubling up on ball to prevent a quick pass and stop the overload

And to be honest, that is a really good strategy. It stops our catch-and-shoot players from getting open shots (Early and Wiggins need space to work), and forces us to beat them with Armstead's decision making and Williams'/Cotton's outside shooting. This should be the gameplan for every opponent going forward. It is especially effective if we have Cotton and Orukpe in at the same time because neither is a real offensive threat, giving the defense a lot of breathing space.

It will be very interesting to see what we do against UNI. Will Marshall throw in a line-up change to throw defenses for a loop (the fabled "all of our big men" line-up perhaps)? Will we run the same plays and just try to execute better? How will we get Early and Wiggins open? Will Cotton find his niche on offense?

I don't have the answers to any of those questions. I do think that this emphasizes our reliance on our defense to create offense though. I feel we are absolutely at our best when our defenses gives us transition opportunities, and this only becomes more important when teams have a good strategy for our half-court offense.

Maybe Cotton or Williams could have switched places with Armstead in the half court to allow one of our best three point shooters to get good open shots. Instead, Armstrong is the one trying to find good shots in the 2/3 zone for Cotton and Williams. That doesn't seem like a good plan.

I noticed that Marshall was using Van Vleet as more of a primary PG and Armstead as an off-ball shooter in the second half. I think we need to see more of that, and probably more of Williams doing the same thing. Williams needs to get better at the passing game though, especially in regards to getting our big men the ball.

[ShockerFever]

I think Hall touched the ball 8 times, and 6 of those were on rebounds.

I like how DWill was quoted as saying ISUb made them shoot from the outside when DWill has a history of ignoring post players no matter how good their positioning is.

I know they were trying to take away the post play, but you still have to give it to them when they get position. The passing the ball back and forth at the top of the key does nothing. We looked like a bunch of 4th graders out there last night that had never seen a zone defense.

Fred had a nice game. Cotton was OK. Everyone else had major issues. I take that back. Hall did OK. It's not his fault nobody but Fred wanted to pass him the ball.

I've noticed it a lot lately and it becomes even more obvious in a loss. I really like DWill but his flat-out refusal to feed the post or sometimes not even bat an eyelash at it is really starting to piss me off. I dunno how many times post players like would establish amazing position, especially on a break, and watch DWill just simply ignore it. Very old and tiresome. It's not a very great formula to win basketball games against good teams. MA is guilty of this too, but it's really prevalent with DWill. The **** needs to change. Quick. I'm not a coach but one must hope Marshall sees this when they go over hours of game tape.