Poll Watch, 2012-13 Edition

[im4wsu]

Not to have the unpopular opinion on here (or maybe that's exactly what it is) but a lot of you are complaining about VCU or KU being ahead of us. If we played VCU or KU on a neutral floor tomorrow I would pick us to lose them both. We have guys injured, we have guys not playing 100%, and the fact is we haven't played against a "top notch" zone defense since Carl Hall has been out. I think VCU would spank us tomorrow, maybe we keep it within 10 but I wouldn't bet on it if we shoot our astounding 32% from 3 point range, any given night we could get hot and beat anyone right now, but I see nothing wrong with us being ranked 23rd. There are very few teams (if any) ranked ahead of us in the AP that I think we are legitimately better than on a neutral court with Carl Hall out. Could we come out ahead against all of these teams on any given night, yes, but if we played 10 games against each on a neutral court tomorrow I'm betting we aren't better than any or most of the teams ranked ahead of us. Get Carl Hall back and learn to play against the Zone a little better and I see us ranked around 11-15th.

Unpopular view, yes, but without Carl Hall we just flat out are not better than most of those teams.

If we played VCU and they prepped the zone against us for tomorrow I would predict a 15+ point loss easy if we shoot 32% from 3 point range...

Help me out here, please. Do the polls really attempt to predict who would win a match-up on a neutral court? Does each voter delve into the game flow of every game and assess the quality of the defenses a team has faced?

I guess I have mistakenly believed that the polls have attempted to reflect the quality of results of games a team has completed. I grant you that there are other biasses or presumptions that have their effect on the voters' perceptions of "quality." I don't believe any team should be given more or less credibility for winning 14 games, or any part thereof, because of the presence or absenece of any particular player or players. The results are what they are. If a team plays whatever is considered "good enough" competition and wins the requisite percentage of games, then it should be reflected in the polls.

WSU is viewed as #23. It has won 9 games with Hall et al and won 5 with them. together that comprises or should comprise the body of work on which we should be judged, not what is on our schedule for next week or how we would match up against any opponent on a neutral court tomorrow or in March.

[GOSHOX1]

This hack tweeted me earlier in the season after I asked him why he was hating on the shox, he told me then that he knew the Shox were legit! He is an idiot

[Aargh]

This hack tweeted me earlier in the season after I asked him why he was hating on the shox, he told me then that he knew the Shox were legit! He is an idiot

You, a mere mortal, questioned a sports writer about his voting for his favorite teams without regard to on-the-court performance? How dare you!

[ShockerFever]

Not to have the unpopular opinion on here (or maybe that's exactly what it is) but a lot of you are complaining about VCU or KU being ahead of us. If we played VCU or KU on a neutral floor tomorrow I would pick us to lose them both. We have guys injured, we have guys not playing 100%, and the fact is we haven't played against a "top notch" zone defense since Carl Hall has been out. I think VCU would spank us tomorrow, maybe we keep it within 10 but I wouldn't bet on it if we shoot our astounding 32% from 3 point range, any given night we could get hot and beat anyone right now, but I see nothing wrong with us being ranked 23rd. There are very few teams (if any) ranked ahead of us in the AP that I think we are legitimately better than on a neutral court with Carl Hall out. Could we come out ahead against all of these teams on any given night, yes, but if we played 10 games against each on a neutral court tomorrow I'm betting we aren't better than any or most of the teams ranked ahead of us. Get Carl Hall back and learn to play against the Zone a little better and I see us ranked around 11-15th.

Unpopular view, yes, but without Carl Hall we just flat out are not better than most of those teams.

If we played VCU and they prepped the zone against us for tomorrow I would predict a 15+ point loss easy if we shoot 32% from 3 point range...

Not popular because it's not that intelligent of a thought. You clearly don't know how poll mechanics work.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

the problem with his explanation is he said this: "And Carl Hall's absence has clearly hurt a Wichita State team that will need him to compete for the MVC title, IMO."

Did I miss something? If WSU had a loss somewhere, or was "clearly" struggling then maybe I could agree - but it is not clear at all. In some ways, although unfortunate for Call Hall, his injury has actually forced some players to grow and contribute more quickly than they might have with him uninjured and in the lineup that actually might help WSU compete for the title and compete on the national stage.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[jdmee]

BLAH BLAH BLAH . We have guys injured, we have guys not playing 100%, and the fact is we haven't played against a "top notch" zone defense since Carl Hall has been out. I think VCU would spank us tomorrow, maybe we keep it within 10 but I wouldn't bet on it if we shoot our astounding 32% from 3 point range, ... BLAH BLAH BLAH

From Page 2 of the MVC weekly newsletter

http://www.mvc-sports.com/media/2012-13/mbasketball/mvc_1-7.pdf

STEALING IT Since Dec. 1, Bradley has been one of the nation's top teams in steals per game. In fact, the Braves are averaging 12.1 steals per game over its past nine games. Only VCU (15.4) and Southern Miss (14.9) have had more. Bradley is on pace to set the MVC's single-season steals record, and has 167 already.

We are 3-0 against those teams. 2-0 without Carl Hall.

[SubGod22]

167 already? I believe we're at 133 as a team and may be able to break the school record. Our pace is close. But BU is going to have a lot more than the 255 that leads our school if they keep up that pace.

[RoyalShock]

the problem with his explanation is he said this: "And Carl Hall's absence has clearly hurt a Wichita State team that will need him to compete for the MVC title, IMO."

Did I miss something? If WSU had a loss somewhere, or was "clearly" struggling then maybe I could agree - but it is not clear at all. In some ways, although unfortunate for Call Hall, his injury has actually forced some players to grow and contribute more quickly than they might have with him uninjured and in the lineup that actually might help WSU compete for the title and compete on the national stage.

With Hall in the lineup I believe the USM, Drake and Bradley games would have looked very different. That is, no come from behind necessary against USM and wider margins of victory against DU and BU. I can almost guarantee Carl would have drawn a lot more fouls in the post against the Brave Little Toasters.

[Dan]

It will be intersting to see how Marshall brings Hall back into the fold. I can see him relieving EO at the 5 the first couple games to get himself back into game shape. I hate to see Early out of the starting lineup with his inside/outside game. We need him to log as many minutes as possible at the 4.

[rrshock]

I think we see Carl go into the 6th man role, like he played last year.

I am really excited to see this team back at full strength (as close as it can get at least). CH will definitely help this team keep climbing the polls. There is a chance that the MVC will have two games this year between ranked opponents.

[im4wsu]

I hope 100% of his defensive self and can neutralize SonofW. Whatever offensive output we can get is gravy.

[rialaigh]

Not popular because it's not that intelligent of a thought. You clearly don't know how poll mechanics work.

Tell me which teams ranked ahead of us you think we could beat tomorrow, as in win more than 50% of the time against them. Because I Really don't see any. That, is why I have no issue being ranked behind these teams, because right now, we are not better than these teams...pretty simple.

[ShockerFever]

Tell me which teams ranked ahead of us you think we could beat tomorrow, as in win more than 50% of the time against them. Because I Really don't see any. That, is why I have no issue being ranked behind these teams, because right now, we are not better than these teams...pretty simple.

I don't think anybody has too big of an issue? You're the one really making an issue out of nothing. WSU is ranked 23rd in the country. I'm good with that. The coach's poll doesn't mean a thing. ESPN doesn't even use it as their poll anymore.

[KC Shox]

Pollsters are wishy washy. They're supposed to vote on what a particular team has achieved/demonstrated but for awhile there, they were putting Kentucky in the top 25 based on their potential and not what they had done. They are just one example, the same with UNC. We actually have to be as close to perfect to get any poll love. I just want to be in the poll for the publicity and not overly concerned about how accurate it is.

[CBB_Fan]

Tell me which teams ranked ahead of us you think we could beat tomorrow, as in win more than 50% of the time against them. Because I Really don't see any. That, is why I have no issue being ranked behind these teams, because right now, we are not better than these teams...pretty simple.

1. NCState (good losses, no good wins)
2. Georgetown (Lost to Indiana in overtime; won against Towson at home 46-40)
3. Kansas State (beat Florida and NO ONE else)
4. Notre Dame (lost to a team Creighton beat by nearly 30 points, but beat an extremely overrated UK squad)
5. Creighton

Alright, let me explain number 5. I have to say I think we'll beat them more than 50% of the time because we will beat them at least once in the conference season, and once for the Valley Tournament Championship!

On an honest note though we have solid reasons to be ranked above those other teams. All of them are ranked above us because they have a "spotlight" performance, but our total resume is better and I think our team is better.