Poll Watch, 2012-13 Edition

[ShockTalk]

You just don't get it...

We are a major program not because of our winning, but because of our fan support, resources, facilities, and tradition.

Wichita State is a major basketball program whether you want to believe it or not. All I ask is that people start acting like it. Ignorance or complacency isn't going to cut it.

Success on the basketball court comes from winning, by way of recruiting, via the hard work of our recruiters whose main goal is to sell and hype the Wichita State product. When recruits (or more importantly their friends and family) come to ShockerNet and see things like mid-major poll threads, it reeks and is counterproductive to our coaching staff's goal.

HCGM fully expects to bring in top-rated recruits, and he won't be able to do so if the recruit thinks we are inferior to the BCS schools we are in competition with. I can guarantee you this, when a recruiting war comes down to us and a BCS school, the BCS school is saying mid-major this and mid-major that... Why do you want to help out the opposition?

HCGM likes his players confident if not a little cocky. He uses the term swagger often. Do you think he expects any less of his fanbase?


T


...:cool:

And I do agree, how we present ourselves on the national stage can and does affect recruiting. The BB does not help us, particularly when the competition points out that WSU has lost 6 of the 9 mid major BBs that they still play in(of course not mentioning the return matches).

[KSUUWSU]

I am going to agree with Cold on this one. Yes, by all means keep winning. Hopefully when we do, some on here won't appear to be so shocked at our "Early Season" success anymore. I support our team and Coach. I've listened and read HCGM repeat over and over that we are a major program. I agree with him and realize that what he has embarked on is changing the culture back to the early days. The time when everyone understood that we are a major program and respected that fact. Accepting a lesser "Label" will only serve to foster that mindset in everything that you do. I don't believe HCGM will pump the guys up by stating something to the tune of "You are the best damn mid-major ball club, now get out there and show them you are"! Our coach has enough fortitude to stand for what he believes in and I will too. BTW, don't know about Cold but I do drive a big truck. I will hang up and listen now.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I am going to agree with Cold on this one. Yes, by all means keep winning. Hopefully when we do, some on here won't appear to be so shocked at our "Early Season" success anymore. I support our team and Coach. I've listened and read HCGM repeat over and over that we are a major program. I agree with him and realize that what he has embarked on is changing the culture back to the early days. The time when everyone understood that we are a major program and respected that fact. Accepting a lesser "Label" will only serve to foster that mindset in everything that you do. I don't believe HCGM will pump the guys up by stating something to the tune of "You are the best damn mid-major ball club, now get out there and show them you are"! Our coach has enough fortitude to stand for what he believes in and I will too. BTW, don't know about Cold but I do drive a big truck. I will hang up and listen now.

I don't know why that which you put so eloquently, is so tough for some to understand.

And regarding me "gloating" over an 8-0 start? Umm... somebody obviously doesn't know me very well. I talk this way ALL the time. In fact, it is during losing seasons when I can become downright unbearable. Thank goodness we haven't had too many of those over the last decade. ;)


T


...:cool:

[Aargh]

Maybe Hell hasn't frozen over, but surely the frost is on the punkin. I'm 100% behind Cold on this one.

Facilities, recruiting budget, staff budget - we're at or above a typical BCS-affiliated basketball program. Fan support - we're well above most.

Even if we go back 20 years and include most of the dismal '90's, our on court performance is at or above the level of many BCS-affiliated programs.

The rest of the MVC (ironically, other than CU) hates us because we are the rich kids and we have a major program compared to their mid-major programs.

LuskinForGuttin (CaeyGarrisonForPrez) was recently on MVCFans complaining that ALL MSU's athletic programs are in the tank - it's not just basketball. I opined that perhaps that's because their athletic department is broke and can't afford the coaching salaries or recruitng budgets to stay competitive. UNI fans jumped on me big time. How dare anyone suggest that budget constraints might affect the quality of the product put on the floor. That's from UNI, whose President threatened to drop athletics if the State of Iowa cut off the $6 mill gift they get from the State each year.

We're stuck in a conference that will be referred to as "mid-major". It's one of the better "mid-major" conferences.

It's us and CU that are going to be the top of the MVC for the forseeable future. There will be a pretender or two most years and we need that.

WSU is NOT mid-major and I see no reason to even click on a link that shows how great WSU is doing in the mid-major ranks. If Marshall ever leaves, I'm confident the list of coaches lining up for the WSU job will ensure that we remain a major program in mid-major conference. There are probably successful BCS-affiliated coaches who would give up their left jewel for an opportunity to coach here - where basketball, not football - rules.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

There is nothing "mid-major" about WSU, just as there is nothing "major" about Nebraska, or Ole Miss, or a handful of other schools who happen to be in BCS conferences and ride the coat tails of the much more successful blue bloods. We have somehow been brainwashed to believe that just because a school is from a BCS conference, that it is somehow a "major" program, and that just because a school is non-BCS it is a "mid-major". This ludicrous label will only persist if we let it, and we legitimize it if we use it to describe ourselves. We have to stop.

[Dave Stalwart]

There is nothing "mid-major" about WSU, just as there is nothing "major" about Nebraska, or Ole Miss, or a handful of other schools who happen to be in BCS conferences and ride the coat tails of the much more successful blue bloods. We have somehow been brainwashed to believe that just because a school is from a BCS conference, that it is somehow a "major" program, and that just because a school is non-BCS it is a "mid-major". This ludicrous label will only persist if we let it, and we legitimize it if we use it to describe ourselves. We have to stop.

Exactly. Didn't Nebraska beat us last time we played? Or was that a beat down worse than what we usually put on a d2 school? I can't remember.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Don't confuse Nebraska's suckitude on the hardwood with not being a major program. They can pay their coach millions and have billions of cornholer fans. There's nothing mid-major about their program even though they often get beat by them. Nebraska lacks proper leadership and could be everything on the hardwood that Texas A&M was.


T


...:cool:

[tropicalshox]

#21 UNLV down 6 at half at Portland.

[shockmonster]

Don't confuse Nebraska's suckitude on the hardwood with not being a major program. They can pay their coach millions and have billions of cornholer fans. There's nothing mid-major about their program even though they often get beat by them. Nebraska lacks proper leadership and could be everything on the hardwood that Texas A&M was.


T


...:cool:

Their basketball fan support and attendance is low. Just because they have a top notch football program that provides for a basketball program doesn't make the basketball program top notch.

[shox1989]

UNL may have millions to spend on basketball (because of football and their membership in the BIG) but they do sell individual Basketball tickets starting at $5 and season tickets at $95. And even with those low, almost give-away prices, they still usually have thousands of empty, unsold seats at most of their home games (Cu will be an exception).

[ShockTalk]

Their basketball fan support and attendance is low. Just because they have a top notch football program that provides for a basketball program doesn't make the basketball program top notch.

UNL may have millions to spend on basketball (because of football and their membership in the BIG) but they do sell individual Basketball tickets starting at $5 and season tickets at $95. And even with those low, almost give-away prices, they still usually have thousands of empty, unsold seats at most of their home games (Cu will be an exception).

I agree...for now. It's much easier for the Omaha UNL fans to support CU. However, if their current coach were to have a couple of years like Boyle at Colorado, how many might wave bye to CU and make the not-so-long trip to Lincoln?

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

The potential for fan support is no substitute for actual fan support. Truth is, UNL basketball has very few fans, lives in the dark shadow of its football program, has pretty much been an afterthought of the athletic department, and has had little success and tradition. To me, that is definitely a mid-major program in a BCS conference. It has the potential to be something great, and thanks to the football team and its conference affiliation it may have the resources, but a mule in a tuxedo is still a mule.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Nebraska's head coach makes around 1.5M. Nebraska is a member of the Big10. Nebraska has a billion fans. Nebraska football has multiple national championships. Nebraska has state-of-the-art facilities. Nebraska is a major program.

If Nebraska basketball ever gets their **** together and makes it to the NCAA tournament, you will see a throng of red (kind of like when they play BJ in baseball). Nebraska basketball is lightly attended because their fans are embarrassed. But make no mistake, their fanbase is huge and they travel hardcore.


T


...:cool:

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

You're right, because Nebraska is in a BCS conference and has a football team, it's a big time basketball program. Huge. My mistake.

[molly jabali]

Nebraska's fans have had great reason to be apathetic in the Collier/Sadler regimes...kind of like the waning support at WSU during the awful years of Cohen, Thompson and Smithson...but they may be a sleeping giant, fan wise, if the new coach turns them around.