WICHITA STATE (4-0) vs. LIBERTY (3-0) Game Thread

[Kung Wu]

I apologize to anyone who's feelings I hurt with my emotional posts tonight.

[Kel Varnsen]

The iso ball was certainly part of the game plan as the guy guarding XB for most of the game couldn’t stop him at all. Liberty made some adjustments and doubled down every time we turned our back on the drive and that probably prevented us from scoring a good ten to 12 points off of turnovers. I had no problem with us taking advantage of that matchup but our guys probably didn’t look to kick to a shooter quick enough, and there were too many times where we just stood with the ball on the perimeter or settled for jump shots.

They were fast, we were slow.

To one of Doc’s points earlier, I don’t see why we’re not pulling Bamba’s redshirt, especially with the bench as short as it is. Letting Joy get some run will be a good thing.

[shock]

I think what we are seeing is some sacrifice of coaching principles and system concepts to try to win with a short bench and missing system pieces.

KP has showed enough in the past that, for now, he gets a pass until he shows that whatever this is is the new norm.

We have no PG. We have no good ball handlers. We have a VERY short bench.

It’s going to be a long year, but I think it gets better.

[1972Shocker]

with 9:00 o play Andale 24-21 over Cheney

14 minutes into the game Andale had scored 3 touchdowns and 3 two-point conversions to take a 24-0 lead and seemed well on their way to avenging the earlier loss to Cheney this season that broke Andale's 57-game winning streak.

Cheney scored with one minute remaining in the first half to make it 24-7 at the half.

Cheney scored again midway throught the 3rd quarter to make it 24-14.

With 9 minutes to go in the game Cheney scored it's 3rd touchdown to make it 24-21.

Andale then drove to the Cheney 29 yard line where they were stopped on 4th down giving the ball back to Cheney.

Cheney then drove for the go ahead touchdown with 2 minutes to to aided by a personal foul on a late hit. Cheney takes the lead 28-24.

Cheney stopped Andale on 4th down at the Andale 39 yard line and then ran out the clock.

What a great comeback and what a great year for the Cheney kids.

Cheney moves into the 3A state championship game next week against Topeka Hayden.

Thought the Lady Shocks' volleyball reverse sweep of Rice tonight was a terrific comeback but Cheney may have topped that.

[ShockHat]

I didn’t get a chance to watch the game (which is a good thing it seems), but I’m going to jump on and say what the hell is Pohto here for? He is more soft than anybody I’ve seen his height. Someone says it’s because he’s finesse instead of strength. Then fine, where’s that? Why does he have 0 rebounds.

It’a especially frustrating as everybody seems to rave about him and for me, I see all the missed bunnies, the lack of presence (which will be abused when we match up against real centers), and the casual jog back across the court.

I hope Mills gets this **** figured out. I don’t know if I can stand another year of this after how far we’ve fallen (and how fast we’ve fallen).

[Atxshoxfan]

Good team ball takes time to develop the chemistry and trust of all the guys. But some need to step up and make that happen. XB has improved this year but he needs to be more of a facilitator. I believe coaches will work on that with him.

Team ball will fade if the transfer portal is overused. This year, there was little choice. HCPM's biggest task will be after the season is over, by retaining those that he is currently developing. If he continues to develop guys like he has this far and retain the core, we will be in great shape in the next couple of years.

[1972Shocker]

At this point I fall on the side of those who are concerned about our lack of team-oriented basketball where the ball and the players are moving with a purpose. Obviously, that can be done effectively as Liberty showed. I don't expect us to turn into a smooth running, efficient, team-oriented machine overnight but I do hope we see steady progress with that as the season progresses.

I thought maybe the Shocks had perhaps figured some things out when they pulled to with 2 points at 52-54 after trailing by 12 at 42-54 after which the Shocks had 2 possessions with a chance to tie or take the lead which they were unable to take advantange of. At that point the wheels came of the bus. 4,5 minutes later the score was 73-54 and Beverly was out of commission and with 5 minutes remaining the Shockers and the game were fully cooked.

Sounds like Joy will get his chance on Sunday for sure and perhaps for 2 or 3 games after that as well. I guess we knew this would be coming at some point this season. Perhaps its better it has happened now than later.

BBIQ is a differentiator (see Fred VanVleet) and we need a lot more of it. However, I am not sure how much of that is inate and god given and how much can be coached. Some guys just seem to get it and some don't. This team needs to find some. They need to learn to play fast without being in a hurry. One way to do that is to pass the ball and move without the ball (with a purpose). Lots of teaching is ahead for this team. What is not clear is how much learning will be done.

It will be interesting to watch how HCPM approaches this and what kind of progress can be made starting with how his team responds on Sunday after getting punched hard in the mouth by Liberty. Playing bad and losing certainly exposes a teams warts and vulnerabilities. I have no clue how this team will respond.

[Atxshoxfan]

All about match ups guys.
Liberty is one smart bunch of white dudes that know how to play the game.
They passed and moved without the ball and were a joy to watch.
They also proved you don't need a 6"10" shot stuffer in the paint to win.

Don't get on the HCPM and this team after that game. They aren't there yet 5 games in the season.
It was a learning experience and yes, they got schooled tonight.
When I watched Liberty do the same to Furman the night before, I knew tonight would be a challenge.
Liberty is just a well coached, fundamental team that plays well together. Vermont better be ready to go on Sunday or they will get their asses waxed too
If WSU can pop STL and get out of there with two wins, mission accomplished.

Stay positive guys. Better days are ahead.l

That is all.

I agree but I think KP has had plenty of time to show us that he's made of more than powder puffs. But he hasn't, and I'd be surprised if he ever does at this point. He has the ability to make some nice passes but beyond that I see absolutely nothing. I've never seen a guy with his height play so small and weak in all my life. And I'm not exaggerating.
The coaching staff and the rest of the team still have my support and I am enjoying watching the growth. But KP is not growing.

[ShockRef]

It was ugly. KP keeps proving me right. Put in a 6'4" guy in who is aggressive and can shoot a 10 footer, in his place and your way ahead.

Our guards go too deep to the basket when the lane isn't there. Should be looking for open players about the time they cross the free throw line to about 10 ft in. When you see 3-4 guys collapsed on you, it's just too late to do much. When you see a second guy collapsing, find the open man for God's sake.

But, it is one loss, one we all kind of expected. Should be a good film for learning the right way(Liberty) and the wrong way (WSU) on ball movement and player movement on the offensive end.

All about match ups guys.
Liberty is one smart bunch of white dudes that know how to play the game.
They passed and moved without the ball and were a joy to watch.
They also proved you don't need a 6"10" shot stuffer in the paint to win.

Don't get on the HCPM and this team after that game. They aren't there yet 5 games in the season.
It was a learning experience and yes, they got schooled tonight.
When I watched Liberty do the same to Furman the night before, I knew tonight would be a challenge.
Liberty is just a well coached, fundamental team that plays well together. Vermont better be ready to go on Sunday or they will get their asses waxed too
If WSU can pop STL and get out of there with two wins, mission accomplished.

Stay positive guys. Better days are ahead.

That is all.

[ShockerFever]

I got ridiculed by a couple posters for the continual, predictable drives into the lane. That's not D1 basketball. That's JUCO. And it was allowed to continue without any sort of intervention. What are we doing in practice? Definitely not passing.

Our defense and rebounding is shockingly bad. Like Creighton 2010's bad. Marshall would have a coronary if he watched that game.

It'a only game 5 but that was a huge low point already. I can't imagine it getting worse than that.

[ShockTalk]

eww.jpg

[Stickboy46]

[Stickboy46]

We are averaging 4x as many assists per game (12 vs 3). How can you begin to say they are similar?

Because I watched the games. The offense very often devolves to 1 on 1. We also had only 4 assists vs Western Kentucky. I will admit, we had more assists in the other two games than I remember. But in any game against a team with a pulse we have run the same crap offense.

[shoxtop]

This has been VERY similar to all the games before this though. I've commented multiple times in other game threads about how much we go one on one. This IS the offense we have run all year. Maybe they have been running wrong all year. That's definitely possible. It just worked better against lower level teams.

Maybe this is the wake up call the coaches need to make a real adjustment.

We are averaging 4x as many assists per game (12 vs 3). How can you begin to say they are similar?

[Atxshoxfan]

It was ugly. KP keeps proving me right. Put in a 6'4" guy in who is aggressive and can shoot a 10 footer, in his place and your way ahead.

Our guards go too deep to the basket when the lane isn't there. Should be looking for open players about the time they cross the free throw line to about 10 ft in. When you see 3-4 guys collapsed on you, it's just too late to do much. When you see a second guy collapsing, find the open man for God's sake.

But, it is one loss, one we all kind of expected. Should be a good film for learning the right way(Liberty) and the wrong way (WSU) on ball movement and player movement on the offensive end.