Transfer Portal Discussion (outgoing player tracking)

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

This Tweet just about sums up the attitude of most kids today. Former Shocker recruit.

[mattdalt]

This Tweet just about sums up the attitude of most kids today. Former Shocker recruit.

Interesting, I saw an interview with Nick Kroll, (successful comedian, tv actor, etc.) and when asked the key to his success, (in the extremely difficult world of stand up comedy,) he said, "Don't have a plan B." Where is the line between being so driven toward success that you don't have a plan B, and "the attitude of today's kids?"

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Interesting, I saw an interview with Nick Kroll, (successful comedian, tv actor, etc.) and when asked the key to his success, (in the extremely difficult world of stand up comedy,) he said, "Don't have a plan B." Where is the line between being so driven toward success that you don't have a plan B, and "the attitude of today's kids?"

Considering about 1% of NCAA D1 basketball players make the NBA I think the line is having a sense of reality. I am not necessarily speaking directly about this kid as he appears to be extremely talented and could have a shot. Although he is a 6'2" SG which makes the climb even steeper.

This seems to be the mentality of most every kid in college basketball these days. It is indeed a good thing to be driven and have goals in life. In fact, I preach that to my kids all the time. But, you absolutely have to have a plan B. Whether that is getting a useful degree and / or playing overseas for a few year or getting in to coaching, etc. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good or logical thing to do.

[Dan]

Too dumb to realize that Plan B is sitting right in front of their faces, which is getting an education while pursuing their basketball dreams.

[mattdalt]

There are people responding to Taylor's tweet about the separation agreement between Boatwrong and WSU, thinking the settlement was 300K every 2 weeks for a year. NOT, 300K total paid in 2 week installments for a year. On what planet would someone making 275K a year, command a severance package of 300K every 2 weeks?

Lack of critical thinking skills, THAT is the problem with some of the youth.

[ShockBand]

There are people responding to Taylor's tweet about the separation agreement between Boatwrong and WSU, thinking the settlement was 300K every 2 weeks for a year. NOT, 300K total paid in 2 week installments for a year. On what planet would someone making 275K a year, command a severance package of 300K every 2 weeks?

Lack of critical thinking skills, THAT is the problem with some of the youth.

Reedin is hurd.

[SB Shock]

There are people responding to Taylor's tweet about the separation agreement between Boatwrong and WSU, thinking the settlement was 300K every 2 weeks for a year. NOT, 300K total paid in 2 week installments for a year. On what planet would someone making 275K a year, command a severance package of 300K every 2 weeks?

Lack of critical thinking skills, THAT is the problem with some of the youth.

I laughed out loud at the "confused" people. And then there is the guy who want to hire Brent Kemnitz as the AD.

[pogo]

There are people responding to Taylor's tweet about the separation agreement between Boatwrong and WSU, thinking the settlement was 300K every 2 weeks for a year. NOT, 300K total paid in 2 week installments for a year. On what planet would someone making 275K a year, command a severance package of 300K every 2 weeks?

Lack of critical thinking skills, THAT is the problem with some of the youth.

Sadly it's not limited to only youth.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Sadly it's not limited to only youth.

Indeed. Our very own shockernet is proof sometimes.

[IndianaShocker]

Interesting, I saw an interview with Nick Kroll, (successful comedian, tv actor, etc.) and when asked the key to his success, (in the extremely difficult world of stand up comedy,) he said, "Don't have a plan B." Where is the line between being so driven toward success that you don't have a plan B, and "the attitude of today's kids?"

Great question that deserves more attention. I don't pretend to have the answer, but do have some opinions based on personal/first-hand experiences and 30ish years of observing high school/college athletes.

As a player - mentioning this only for context - I was blessed to have incredibly talented teammates. AAU - (pre shoe circuits when it was still "AAU") multiple national tournament final 4's, six consecutive state championships, an Indiana Mr. Basketball, 9 D1 recruits (including IU/UNC/Butler), 3 who played in S16's, 2 played in the F4, the 2nd best (and most important) player on a NCAA runner-up team, and NCAA's D1 record holder holder for consecutive ft's made. A HS teammate played in the B1G, finished HS career as state's #3 scorer & was B1G tourney MVP as a freshman. These kids were all of from middle - upper working class families.

My situation changed 2 weeks prior to courses starting my freshman year and I ended up at a JUCO - not just any JUCO but one the top JC's in america. I'm sure you Hutch followers know this, but the JUCO talent pool prior to the early 00's was deeper than today. Prep/5th year schools were in their infancy, & primarily located on the east coast. Nearly all d1 level players who were non-qualifiers (prop 48'ers as we called them), went JUCO. Several of my teammates were considered "major" recruits in high school and nearly all had D1 offers - when I first visted campus an AC told me they recruit P48's ranked in the top 200 and fill in the roster with D1 transfers & local kids to help w attendance lol. Virtually all of these kids came from less than ideal circumstances. It was apparent immediately most had no guidance, no sense of responsibility and no direction. They were like sheets in the wind.

Although I played with some incredibly talented players prior to college, never did I hear any talk of playing in the NBA. The common goal was to play college basketball on scholarship at the highest level possible. It was a means to end, while having the opportunity to continue doing something we loved.

My first aspiring NBA teammates were at JUCO. And nearly all genuinely believed they would play in the NBA. It was all they knew. Their entire identity was based on playing in the NBA. The JUCO I played at actually had NBA pedigree - in 1999 there were more (3) active roster NBA players from this JUCO than any other college in Indiana. But they sold that to these kids, knowing damn well their chances of playing in the NBA were slim to none. Hell, most of these guys couldn't set their own alarm clock.

One JUCO teammate - great guy - signed with Minnesota out of HS, but missed 86 days school his senior year. His coach/school administration let him play in every game that year. I asked him how his coach let him miss so much school - in my mind I couldn't understand it - my brain couldn't comprehend it. Where I grew up, any kid who had that opportunity would've had the entire community looking out for him. Coach, or teacher, or other parent - there would be no shortage of volunteers - would have drove him to/from school every day. If he didn't show-up they would've tracked him down. This wasn't a bad kid, he was one of my all-time favorite teammates, but he had no clue. No direction. And the JUCO only added to the instability kids like him were accustomed to. So many thoroughbreds in & out of that place it was chaos. They sold him on that NBA ****. Guess what happened to him? He played 2 years there, was an integral part of our team finishing 5th at Hutch. Had multiple mid-major D1 offers out of JUCO (tweener) but quit going to class after the season his sophomore year, didn't graduate, never played basketball again. Just like his HS coaches, the JUCO coaches didn't care. They got their use out of him, if he didn't want to go to class not their problem. He needed pushed for 6 weeks, someone to keep after him for 6 damn weeks so he could graduate and change his life.

When I see kids who claim NBA or bust I get a sickening feeling in my stomach. They're being sold snake oil. To many of these kids the only value school has is keeping them eligible. These kids need someone to be honest with them - their whole life they've been told what they want to hear, used, lied to and passed down the road.

Emareyon McDonald, the kid who tweeted no plan B - he has zero chance to play in the NBA. He averaged 5 points at Northwestern State as a freshman. His min decreased as the season progressed. In his bio on the NSU website, it literally refers to him as their "3rd PG". News flash, most NBA rosters have 2-3 players 6'3 & under. Some teams have no one on their roster 6'3 or under. I looked at the rosters of the 2 worst NBA teams in 2021 - Houston & Detroit. Detroit had no one under 6'4. Houston had 3 players listed at 6'3 - Ben McElmore, Eric Gordon, and John Wall. Pretty sure this kid isn't in that stratosphere. Someone needs to be honest with him, highlight the incredible opportunity he has to receive a free education + perks before he's another victim of the hype.

So what is the fine line? To me it's reality and honesty. Pushing/encouraging kids is part of the responsibility for parents & mentors. Shoot for the stars, if you land on the moon that's probably not a bad pace to be. But permitting/encouraging kids to believe in a dream that's 100% not happening - that's setting kids up to fail. Not just in achieving their dream, but in life as well.

Considering about 1% of NCAA D1 basketball players make the NBA I think the line is having a sense of reality. I am not necessarily speaking directly about this kid as he appears to be extremely talented and could have a shot. Although he is a 6'2" SG which makes the climb even steeper.

This seems to be the mentality of most every kid in college basketball these days. It is indeed a good thing to be driven and have goals in life. In fact, I preach that to my kids all the time. But, you absolutely have to have a plan B. Whether that is getting a useful degree and / or playing overseas for a few year or getting in to coaching, etc. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good or logical thing to do.

You're a better talent evaluator than that.

[Shockm]

Great question that deserves more attention. I don't pretend to have the answer, but do have some opinions based on personal/first-hand experiences and 30ish years of observing high school/college athletes.

As a player - mentioning this only for context - I was blessed to have incredibly talented teammates. AAU - (pre shoe circuits when it was still "AAU") multiple national tournament final 4's, six consecutive state championships, an Indiana Mr. Basketball, 9 D1 recruits (including IU/UNC/Butler), 3 who played in S16's, 2 played in the F4, the 2nd best (and most important) player on a NCAA runner-up team, and NCAA's D1 record holder holder for consecutive ft's made. A HS teammate played in the B1G, finished HS career as state's #3 scorer & was B1G tourney MVP as a freshman. These kids were all of from middle - upper working class families.

My situation changed 2 weeks prior to courses starting my freshman year and I ended up at a JUCO - not just any JUCO but one the top JC's in america. I'm sure you Hutch followers know this, but the JUCO talent pool prior to the early 00's was deeper than today. Prep/5th year schools were in their infancy, & primarily located on the east coast. Nearly all d1 level players who were non-qualifiers (prop 48'ers as we called them), went JUCO. Several of my teammates were considered "major" recruits in high school and nearly all had D1 offers - when I first visted campus an AC told me they recruit P48's ranked in the top 200 and fill in the roster with D1 transfers & local kids to help w attendance lol. Virtually all of these kids came from less than ideal circumstances. It was apparent immediately most had no guidance, no sense of responsibility and no direction. They were like sheets in the wind.

Although I played with some incredibly talented players prior to college, never did I hear any talk of playing in the NBA. The common goal was to play college basketball on scholarship at the highest level possible. It was a means to end, while having the opportunity to continue doing something we loved.

My first aspiring NBA teammates were at JUCO. And nearly all genuinely believed they would play in the NBA. It was all they knew. Their entire identity was based on playing in the NBA. The JUCO I played at actually had NBA pedigree - in 1999 there were more (3) active roster NBA players from this JUCO than any other college in Indiana. But they sold that to these kids, knowing damn well their chances of playing in the NBA were slim to none. Hell, most of these guys couldn't set their own alarm clock.

One JUCO teammate - great guy - signed with Minnesota out of HS, but missed 86 days school his senior year. His coach/school administration let him play in every game that year. I asked him how his coach let him miss so much school - in my mind I couldn't understand it - my brain couldn't comprehend it. Where I grew up, any kid who had that opportunity would've had the entire community looking out for him. Coach, or teacher, or other parent - there would be no shortage of volunteers - would have drove him to/from school every day. If he didn't show-up they would've tracked him down. This wasn't a bad kid, he was one of my all-time favorite teammates, but he had no clue. No direction. And the JUCO only added to the instability kids like him were accustomed to. So many thoroughbreds in & out of that place it was chaos. They sold him on that NBA ****. Guess what happened to him? He played 2 years there, was an integral part of our team finishing 5th at Hutch. Had multiple mid-major D1 offers out of JUCO (tweener) but quit going to class after the season his sophomore year, didn't graduate, never played basketball again. Just like his HS coaches, the JUCO coaches didn't care. They got their use out of him, if he didn't want to go to class not their problem. He needed pushed for 6 weeks, someone to keep after him for 6 damn weeks so he could graduate and change his life.

When I see kids who claim NBA or bust I get a sickening feeling in my stomach. They're being sold snake oil. To many of these kids the only value school has is keeping them eligible. These kids need someone to be honest with them - their whole life they've been told what they want to hear, used, lied to and passed down the road.

Emareyon McDonald, the kid who tweeted no plan B - he has zero chance to play in the NBA. He averaged 5 points at Northwestern State as a freshman. His min decreased as the season progressed. In his bio on the NSU website, it literally refers to him as their "3rd PG". News flash, most NBA rosters have 2-3 players 6'3 & under. Some teams have no one on their roster 6'3 or under. I looked at the rosters of the 2 worst NBA teams in 2021 - Houston & Detroit. Detroit had no one under 6'4. Houston had 3 players listed at 6'3 - Ben McElmore, Eric Gordon, and John Wall. Pretty sure this kid isn't in that stratosphere. Someone needs to be honest with him, highlight the incredible opportunity he has to receive a free education + perks before he's another victim of the hype.

So what is the fine line? To me it's reality and honesty. Pushing/encouraging kids is part of the responsibility for parents & mentors. Shoot for the stars, if you land on the moon that's probably not a bad pace to be. But permitting/encouraging kids to believe in a dream that's 100% not happening - that's setting kids up to fail. Not just in achieving their dream, but in life as well.





You're a better talent evaluator than that.

Are we talking Plan A or simply a dream? The kids that Indy Shock is talking about, probably all have a Dream (which is all good because on rare occasions, dreams work out), but while they work hard to achieve, they didn't put all of their eggs in one basket.

[mjbaker84]

This Tweet just about sums up the attitude of most kids today. Former Shocker recruit.

Who is this?

[shoxlax]

Great question that deserves more attention. I don't pretend to have the answer, but do have some opinions based on personal/first-hand experiences and 30ish years of observing high school/college athletes.

As a player - mentioning this only for context - I was blessed to have incredibly talented teammates. AAU - (pre shoe circuits when it was still "AAU") multiple national tournament final 4's, six consecutive state championships, an Indiana Mr. Basketball, 9 D1 recruits (including IU/UNC/Butler), 3 who played in S16's, 2 played in the F4, the 2nd best (and most important) player on a NCAA runner-up team, and NCAA's D1 record holder holder for consecutive ft's made. A HS teammate played in the B1G, finished HS career as state's #3 scorer & was B1G tourney MVP as a freshman. These kids were all of from middle - upper working class families.

My situation changed 2 weeks prior to courses starting my freshman year and I ended up at a JUCO - not just any JUCO but one the top JC's in america. I'm sure you Hutch followers know this, but the JUCO talent pool prior to the early 00's was deeper than today. Prep/5th year schools were in their infancy, & primarily located on the east coast. Nearly all d1 level players who were non-qualifiers (prop 48'ers as we called them), went JUCO. Several of my teammates were considered "major" recruits in high school and nearly all had D1 offers - when I first visted campus an AC told me they recruit P48's ranked in the top 200 and fill in the roster with D1 transfers & local kids to help w attendance lol. Virtually all of these kids came from less than ideal circumstances. It was apparent immediately most had no guidance, no sense of responsibility and no direction. They were like sheets in the wind.

Although I played with some incredibly talented players prior to college, never did I hear any talk of playing in the NBA. The common goal was to play college basketball on scholarship at the highest level possible. It was a means to end, while having the opportunity to continue doing something we loved.

My first aspiring NBA teammates were at JUCO. And nearly all genuinely believed they would play in the NBA. It was all they knew. Their entire identity was based on playing in the NBA. The JUCO I played at actually had NBA pedigree - in 1999 there were more (3) active roster NBA players from this JUCO than any other college in Indiana. But they sold that to these kids, knowing damn well their chances of playing in the NBA were slim to none. Hell, most of these guys couldn't set their own alarm clock.

One JUCO teammate - great guy - signed with Minnesota out of HS, but missed 86 days school his senior year. His coach/school administration let him play in every game that year. I asked him how his coach let him miss so much school - in my mind I couldn't understand it - my brain couldn't comprehend it. Where I grew up, any kid who had that opportunity would've had the entire community looking out for him. Coach, or teacher, or other parent - there would be no shortage of volunteers - would have drove him to/from school every day. If he didn't show-up they would've tracked him down. This wasn't a bad kid, he was one of my all-time favorite teammates, but he had no clue. No direction. And the JUCO only added to the instability kids like him were accustomed to. So many thoroughbreds in & out of that place it was chaos. They sold him on that NBA ****. Guess what happened to him? He played 2 years there, was an integral part of our team finishing 5th at Hutch. Had multiple mid-major D1 offers out of JUCO (tweener) but quit going to class after the season his sophomore year, didn't graduate, never played basketball again. Just like his HS coaches, the JUCO coaches didn't care. They got their use out of him, if he didn't want to go to class not their problem. He needed pushed for 6 weeks, someone to keep after him for 6 damn weeks so he could graduate and change his life.

When I see kids who claim NBA or bust I get a sickening feeling in my stomach. They're being sold snake oil. To many of these kids the only value school has is keeping them eligible. These kids need someone to be honest with them - their whole life they've been told what they want to hear, used, lied to and passed down the road.

Emareyon McDonald, the kid who tweeted no plan B - he has zero chance to play in the NBA. He averaged 5 points at Northwestern State as a freshman. His min decreased as the season progressed. In his bio on the NSU website, it literally refers to him as their "3rd PG". News flash, most NBA rosters have 2-3 players 6'3 & under. Some teams have no one on their roster 6'3 or under. I looked at the rosters of the 2 worst NBA teams in 2021 - Houston & Detroit. Detroit had no one under 6'4. Houston had 3 players listed at 6'3 - Ben McElmore, Eric Gordon, and John Wall. Pretty sure this kid isn't in that stratosphere. Someone needs to be honest with him, highlight the incredible opportunity he has to receive a free education + perks before he's another victim of the hype.

So what is the fine line? To me it's reality and honesty. Pushing/encouraging kids is part of the responsibility for parents & mentors. Shoot for the stars, if you land on the moon that's probably not a bad pace to be. But permitting/encouraging kids to believe in a dream that's 100% not happening - that's setting kids up to fail. Not just in achieving their dream, but in life as well.





You're a better talent evaluator than that.

For every Lee Nailon, Shawn Marion and Stephon Jackson, there are 1000 Juco kids that don’t sniff the NBA. Problem is nobody tells them that.

Here is my real problem with jucos and two year degrees geared towards basketball and football players: In and of themselves they are almost worthless, used only for the purpose of getting someone into a four year college to continue their athletic career. Better than nothing, but why not offer trade degrees such as welding management or IT administration, so they are worth something and actually may be interesting to someone who has no desire to sit through the boredom and misery of an AA curriculum? Then they have that to fall back on whether they get their four year degree or not. Welders and Electricians basically can name their price in most of the country now and you can work for a big company or by yourself. This should be a choice offered to every athlete that walks into a Juco program yet it rarely if ever is.

[molly jabali]

Great question that deserves more attention. I don't pretend to have the answer, but do have some opinions based on personal/first-hand experiences and 30ish years of observing high school/college athletes.

As a player - mentioning this only for context - I was blessed to have incredibly talented teammates. AAU - (pre shoe circuits when it was still "AAU") multiple national tournament final 4's, six consecutive state championships, an Indiana Mr. Basketball, 9 D1 recruits (including IU/UNC/Butler), 3 who played in S16's, 2 played in the F4, the 2nd best (and most important) player on a NCAA runner-up team, and NCAA's D1 record holder holder for consecutive ft's made. A HS teammate played in the B1G, finished HS career as state's #3 scorer & was B1G tourney MVP as a freshman. These kids were all of from middle - upper working class families.

My situation changed 2 weeks prior to courses starting my freshman year and I ended up at a JUCO - not just any JUCO but one the top JC's in america. I'm sure you Hutch followers know this, but the JUCO talent pool prior to the early 00's was deeper than today. Prep/5th year schools were in their infancy, & primarily located on the east coast. Nearly all d1 level players who were non-qualifiers (prop 48'ers as we called them), went JUCO. Several of my teammates were considered "major" recruits in high school and nearly all had D1 offers - when I first visted campus an AC told me they recruit P48's ranked in the top 200 and fill in the roster with D1 transfers & local kids to help w attendance lol. Virtually all of these kids came from less than ideal circumstances. It was apparent immediately most had no guidance, no sense of responsibility and no direction. They were like sheets in the wind.

Although I played with some incredibly talented players prior to college, never did I hear any talk of playing in the NBA. The common goal was to play college basketball on scholarship at the highest level possible. It was a means to end, while having the opportunity to continue doing something we loved.

My first aspiring NBA teammates were at JUCO. And nearly all genuinely believed they would play in the NBA. It was all they knew. Their entire identity was based on playing in the NBA. The JUCO I played at actually had NBA pedigree - in 1999 there were more (3) active roster NBA players from this JUCO than any other college in Indiana. But they sold that to these kids, knowing damn well their chances of playing in the NBA were slim to none. Hell, most of these guys couldn't set their own alarm clock.

One JUCO teammate - great guy - signed with Minnesota out of HS, but missed 86 days school his senior year. His coach/school administration let him play in every game that year. I asked him how his coach let him miss so much school - in my mind I couldn't understand it - my brain couldn't comprehend it. Where I grew up, any kid who had that opportunity would've had the entire community looking out for him. Coach, or teacher, or other parent - there would be no shortage of volunteers - would have drove him to/from school every day. If he didn't show-up they would've tracked him down. This wasn't a bad kid, he was one of my all-time favorite teammates, but he had no clue. No direction. And the JUCO only added to the instability kids like him were accustomed to. So many thoroughbreds in & out of that place it was chaos. They sold him on that NBA ****. Guess what happened to him? He played 2 years there, was an integral part of our team finishing 5th at Hutch. Had multiple mid-major D1 offers out of JUCO (tweener) but quit going to class after the season his sophomore year, didn't graduate, never played basketball again. Just like his HS coaches, the JUCO coaches didn't care. They got their use out of him, if he didn't want to go to class not their problem. He needed pushed for 6 weeks, someone to keep after him for 6 damn weeks so he could graduate and change his life.

When I see kids who claim NBA or bust I get a sickening feeling in my stomach. They're being sold snake oil. To many of these kids the only value school has is keeping them eligible. These kids need someone to be honest with them - their whole life they've been told what they want to hear, used, lied to and passed down the road.

Emareyon McDonald, the kid who tweeted no plan B - he has zero chance to play in the NBA. He averaged 5 points at Northwestern State as a freshman. His min decreased as the season progressed. In his bio on the NSU website, it literally refers to him as their "3rd PG". News flash, most NBA rosters have 2-3 players 6'3 & under. Some teams have no one on their roster 6'3 or under. I looked at the rosters of the 2 worst NBA teams in 2021 - Houston & Detroit. Detroit had no one under 6'4. Houston had 3 players listed at 6'3 - Ben McElmore, Eric Gordon, and John Wall. Pretty sure this kid isn't in that stratosphere. Someone needs to be honest with him, highlight the incredible opportunity he has to receive a free education + perks before he's another victim of the hype.

So what is the fine line? To me it's reality and honesty. Pushing/encouraging kids is part of the responsibility for parents & mentors. Shoot for the stars, if you land on the moon that's probably not a bad pace to be. But permitting/encouraging kids to believe in a dream that's 100% not happening - that's setting kids up to fail. Not just in achieving their dream, but in life as well.





You're a better talent evaluator than that.

Maybe the most intelligent thing i’ve ever read on here… very good… loved your personal story…

[WuShock16]

Emareyon McDonald, the kid who tweeted no plan B - he has zero chance to play in the NBA. He averaged 5 points at Northwestern State as a freshman.

Someone needs to be honest with him, highlight the incredible opportunity he has to receive a free education + perks before he's another victim of the hype.

First of all, you are very astute on all of your observations. Very insightful.

Two thoughts on young man at Northwestern State. First, not only is this kid an idiot, but it seems like he’s also incredibly insecure. There are people out there who make big comments like that because they think it makes them look cool, not understanding that people really think that they are dumb. My sister used to date a guy like that. Real loser who felt like he had to talk big to impress us.

Second, I heard a story of a college player who had a decent freshman season. His coach asked him about career goals, and player said NBA. Coach told him that he had no shot at the NBA but that he could be a pretty good coach someday. Player realized that his coach probably knew what he was talking about, having coached in the NBA, and later was thankful for that blunt advice so that he didn’t waste time living a lie. Player’s name was Mark Turgeon.