How much time should HCIB get to right the ship?

[Dan]

you all make a good point about the talent on this roster. Several of our starters would be the weak link on one of our recent past teams. JP would be buried deep on the bench. Mo would be 2nd string his career due to his size and range limitations. CP is probably a starter but I can guarantee 3G would have a better backup PG and probably would be grooming a freshman PG right now. We just have so many issues that can't be resolved unless we have some roster turnover next year.

[shox7]

Based on IB’s presser this week sounds like to me he was content with the roster and didn’t think the talent was the problem with this team. Certainly in my opinion the talent has to get much better or we will have a similar season next year as this year. We have to get players who can shoot and make the 3, we have to get bigger and better in the middle, and we need better depth at the point. We have to find the Hatch and Wessel high BBIQ type support players. I for one gave up on IB’s coaching ability when the last game he started JP over Ricky, after RCIV scored 31 in a win and JP had 2.

[ShockTalk]

you all make a good point about the talent on this roster. Several of our starters would be the weak link on one of our recent past teams. JP would be buried deep on the bench. Mo would be 2nd string his career due to his size and range limitations. CP is probably a starter but I can guarantee 3G would have a better backup PG and probably would be grooming a freshman PG right now. We just have so many issues that can't be resolved unless we have some roster turnover next year.

It's not "unless we have some roster turnover", it's "who is in the turnover".

Always felt that Mo came back because he wasn't getting any offers that were better (or as good). No idea if that is really true.

[Shockm]

you all make a good point about the talent on this roster. Several of our starters would be the weak link on one of our recent past teams. JP would be buried deep on the bench. Mo would be 2nd string his career due to his size and range limitations. CP is probably a starter but I can guarantee 3G would have a better backup PG and probably would be grooming a freshman PG right now. We just have so many issues that can't be resolved unless we have some roster turnover next year.

Compare this year to the roster from 2018.

That team had Jamie E. as a poor first year starter who was a JC transfer. He not only wasn't very effective, he also was hurt for most of the year. Mo was the inept backup who was mostly hurt too.

Our best player was Markis McDuffie
Samajae was our shooting guard.
Dexter was our first year small forward
Ricky Torres was our starting point guard most of the year, and backed up by Jamarious Burton who couldn't hit a shot from anywhere his Freshman season.

https://goshockers.com/sports/mens-b...roster/2018-19

This year's team could have run circles around that team, talent wise. Gregg made Chicken salad out of Chicken you know what that year with our NIT run, and 10-8 Conference run.

[Dan]

Compare this year to the roster from 2018.

That team had Jamie E. as a poor first year starter who was a JC transfer. He not only wasn't very effective, he also was hurt for most of the year. Mo was the inept backup who was mostly hurt too.

Our best player was Markis McDuffie
Samajae was our shooting guard.
Dexter was our first year small forward
Ricky Torres was our starting point guard most of the year, and backed up by Jamarious Burton who couldn't hit a shot from anywhere his Freshman season.

https://goshockers.com/sports/mens-b...roster/2018-19

This year's team could have run circles around that team, talent wise. Gregg made Chicken salad out of Chicken you know what that year with our NIT run, and 10-8 Conference run.

yes, that was the weakest team under 3G. I think that team and this team would struggle to beat each other. McDuffie would be the best player from both squads and even though JE was not very good that year, he'd bottle up Udeze.

[rjl]

Because, yeah, that'd would reflect on the wisdom of the program to fire a coach one year after being named the best coach in the conference.

Why, it could only get better from there, for sure...

Didn't a similar thing happen to Billy Kennedy?

[Kung Wu]

But even Gregg Marshall couldn't take this team to the tournament. Some of our starters this season wouldn't even see the floor from 2012-2018.

Not sure I agree. Perhaps Gregg Marshall's greatest talent was -- regardless of what you think of his methods -- was that he was able to extract every last bit of effort out of his individual athletes.

It wasn't his X's and O's. It wasn't his recruiting. He did okay in those areas, but when it came down to it, he was just able to make nearly every player that played for him tough and fight hard while on the floor, to the bitter end. Through adversity, no timeouts to bail you out, no whining when you came off. HC3GM set very high expectations that you stay dialed in and perform to the peak of your ability.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

The no talent excuse is just that, an excuse. This team has talent and talent to win and compete. The issue is a lot of the talent is being sat on the bench in favor of less talented lower BBIQ players because the coach is too loyal. GM did WAY more with way less talent than is on this team.

[SubGod22]

Thing that really sucks is my daughter who's a freshman in High School has already had contact with a coach on the bowling team. I was REALLY hoping for that so I could make weekend visits (we're from Iowa) so I could attend multiple games. Not so sure I'm wanting to do that right now!

If she's only a FR this year, there's still some hope that by the time she'd be a FR here, that things will have changed and there will be excitement once again about where this program can go.

[BostonWu]

If she's only a FR this year, there's still some hope that by the time she'd be a FR here, that things will have changed and there will be excitement once again about where this program can go.

I've been thinking the same thoughts. My son is a sophomore and seriously considering WSU from out of state. I'm not sure there is enough time for him.

[Horn28Clem30]

If she's only a FR this year, there's still some hope that by the time she'd be a FR here, that things will have changed and there will be excitement once again about where this program can go.

I sure hope so, that would be amazing for me. My goal (and why I became a fan) was to bowl at Wichita before I realized I sucked. Could live that dream thru her and get to go to basketball games on top of it! Now it's just a matter of getting this damn ship turned around and not fall completely into obscurity!

[Shockm]

yes, that was the weakest team under 3G. I think that team and this team would struggle to beat each other. McDuffie would be the best player from both squads and even though JE was not very good that year, he'd bottle up Udeze.

Early in the year, JE wouldn't bottle up Udeze. This team has much more talent that that team. My point would be that GM made something out of that bad team. F4 NIT finish. IB won't make this team better. Dexter started on that team, and became quite good, but he won't make a big difference on this one. Tyson isn't being coached well to make him and this team better, and he is a 4* player who should be a really good player (much more talent that Samajae), but too much is being placed on his shoulders. Porter is a much better PG than we had that year. Ricky is much better than we had then. Coaching makes a huge difference.

[Woodrow]

you all make a good point about the talent on this roster. Several of our starters would be the weak link on one of our recent past teams. JP would be buried deep on the bench. Mo would be 2nd string his career due to his size and range limitations. CP is probably a starter but I can guarantee 3G would have a better backup PG and probably would be grooming a freshman PG right now. We just have so many issues that can't be resolved unless we have some roster turnover next year.

Isn't Tyson the preseason conference player of the year? Wasn't WSU picked to finish 4th in the conference? Seems like it is more than talent related.

[Dan]

Isn't Tyson the preseason conference player of the year? Wasn't WSU picked to finish 4th in the conference? Seems like it is more than talent related.

How he is using Tyson is maybe our biggest problem.

[shock]

I love Chris Jans more than anybody but has anyone watched NM State this year? They are so much more talented than anyone else in their conference, that they can play somewhat poorly and still win. I didn’t think they were that good against Grand Canyon, who is very solid, and still won by double digits.

The point being, until we get better, bigger, smarter players there is zero margin of error. Our athleticism and playing hard only goes so far. Proshox is right-our roster now wouldn’t even win the Valley. I know IB does understand Xs and Os, however I said his two biggest challenges would be conveyance to his team effectively and recruiting better than most of the other schools in the league. The latter can hide a bunch of flaws.

I remember the legendary Artie Dillon telling me at the gym while he was tossing around barbells, his opinion on Roy Williams being overrated as a coach. He said, “Let’s give him the West High girls and a level playing field and see how he does”. That comment has stuck with me for years.

How much of that is talent, and how much of it is Jans putting them in a position to be successful by his coaching, both in gam and in practice? I have said it and will say it again, this roster is talented. There is plenty of talent in polos on the bench. Where is the weak link? There is a 2 player difference between this year and last year, and we beat houston last year. You don't beat kelvin with scrubs. There is not THAT much difference between JP and TW.

IMO, its in the details. IB just doesn't have the experience yet. The AAC is very unforgiving, its not a place to learn, its a place to apply what's been learned. You can drive a Lambo all you want but if you don't know what you are doing and keep sending it into limp mode, you aren't going to win any races. Sometimes you need to start with beaters on a dirt track before jumping up to race real drivers.

There is a series on netflix, i think, where they gathered a bunch of drag racers and their cars and put them against a supercar with an inexperienced driver. Sometimes the supercar driver knew just enough to let the car win the race. Put it in launch mode and let the car do the rest. But more often than not the driver made a small error and got beat by the street racer. Its a really good analogy for what we are seeing. Sometimes IB can get the sequence right and the team will win, but he just doesn't have the experience to put it all together night in and night out at this level.