Kansas State at Wichita State (Intrust) Game Thread 12-5-21

[ShockTalk]

The word selfish was brought up. That runs deeper than shot selection. “Literally”

I thought that the pros were wanting him to add at becoming a facilitator (a PG). I'm failing to see how shooting 9 3's and 16 total shots a game does that while shooting 29% 3pt and 32% FG. Throw out the UNLV game and he's shooting 24% 3pt and 29% FG. Oddly enough (or not), his best shooting game is where he also had his most assists so far in the season. Depending on how Porter is, everyone may get a better look at how good a PG he can be.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I thought that the pros were wanting him to add at becoming a facilitator (a PG). I'm failing to see how shooting 9 3's and 16 total shots a game does that while shooting 29% 3pt and 32% FG. Throw out the UNLV game and he's shooting 24% 3pt and 29% FG. Oddly enough (or not), his best shooting game is where he also had his most assists so far in the season. Depending on how Porter is, everyone may get a better look at how good a PG he can be.

Honest question. Who else do we want shooting?

[IndianaShocker]

Way too kind. Learned much from you (much of it too late to be useful). Pay attention and listen to those smarter than you (and that's most people to me).

People too often ignore the fact that the other guy wants to win too.

I don't think anyone is saying other teams aren't trying to win. They certainly are. But that's not exceptional, that's the minimum expectation.

The frustration for fans is a glaring issue that has a logical & some what simple fix but seemingly is being ignored by IB. Even Stevie Wonder could see this.

[WuTheOne]

Wrong as usual. TE starting the next game should not have any impact on CJenkins leaving. That a riduclous statement. Coach IB needs to man up and get TE under control. Shot selection and team ball is the requirement,. And it would be graet to see an offense that got other players like RC4, JP, and KP sots. If TE doesn't comply then there needs to be significant more playing time given to CJenkins. It doesn't have a dam thing to do with who is starting.

LOL! You are certainly not looking at this from the viewpoint that Jenkins would have. If a message isn't sent to Etienne and that message doesn't include giving TE's backup some on court time - and specifically giving Jenkins a start, then Jenkins can see the writing on the wall - and that writing says - "We're going with Etienne no matter how badly he plays or whether he costs us games and we're never going to send him a message that he needs to change anything he's doing".

[TheShocktocles]

LOL! You are certainly not looking at this from the viewpoint that Jenkins would have. If a message isn't sent to Etienne and that message doesn't include giving TE's backup some on court time - and specifically giving Jenkins a start, then Jenkins can see the writing on the wall - and that writing says - "We're going with Etienne no matter how badly he plays or whether he costs us games and we're never going to send him a message that he needs to change anything he's doing".

I don't have an issue with a message be sent to TE to sit him down when he plays selfish and shoots bad shots. I like CJ and he should get more time under those circumstances. Where I take issue with your statement is that CJ should leave if TE starts the game. That's ridiculous.

[WuDrWu]

I'm not saying everything is perfect by any stretch. I'm not, and I'm not close to saying that. But if Cocky McCocky doesn't throw in an out of his ass 30 footer with a minute left, we're probably 70% to win, and that's playing a below average game at best. It's not all good, but it's not all bad either. Tyson's gotta take shots on this team. He needs to take BETTER shots a lot of the time.

And I disagree that anything is "a logical and somewhat simple fix". Far from it. It's fairly simple to see the problem and to see alternatives, but that doesn't mean it's fixed.

And I'm not picking on anyone's opinion here. We're all entitled to one. We have systemic issues that aren't going to be fixed with all the coaching in the world.

[Dan]

Honest question. Who else do we want shooting?

Council, Pohto and Jackson are probably our 3 best 3 point shooters right now. Etienne would be if it were a non contested shot, but he doesn’t have that luxury.

[1972Shocker]

This game in and of itself is not a killer. The Shocks should (I think) win the next 4. However, how they play in those games will be important. I, for one, would really like to see more of a team oriented offense with more palyers and ball movement. But I admit I am an old fuddy duddy and that the game and how it is needs to played may have passed me by. Nevertheless, I really do not care for the style of offense the Shocks have in place. Even though the Shocks are 6-2, watching their games has been a bit painful for this old boy this year.

We will see what happens moving forward. Here is hoping we see some clear improvement in the offense with a more team oriented approach over these next 4 games. If we do, then I think I, for one, would feel a lot better about this team's prospects in the AAC. Of course, whether that happens or not is totally up to the Shocker coaches and team. Perhaps, all is needed is that they keep doing what they are doing but do it better. My opinion is what they are doing offensively needs some tweaks and adjustments at a minimum. With the Shocks being 6-2 at this point and very likely 10-2 going into AAC play I doubt there will be any major overhaul of the offense and maybe trying something like that at this point in the season would be counterproductive anyway.

[Stickboy46]

A lot of people should refrain from posting until they come down from their adrenaline high from a bad game (or sober up)

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Council, Pohto and Jackson are probably our 3 best 3 point shooters right now. Etienne would be if it were a non contested shot, but he doesn’t have that luxury.

Why not?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Council, Pohto and Jackson are probably our 3 best 3 point shooters right now. Etienne would be if it were a non contested shot, but he doesn’t have that luxury.

And I ask because Marty Simmons could get the only shooter on his team a non-contested shot almost at will.

[Kel Varnsen]

Was talking with a friend the other day who was a former D-1 assistant. We were lamenting how the days of having a system and expecting players to buy into it are gone at almost all levels of college ball. It may exist at the fringes (Davidson with Bob McKillop and Belmont with Rick Byrd come to mind), but most teams just run high screen and roll with a little off-ball movement and let a guard make a play. Why? That’s what kids see in the NBA and they want to emulate it. It’s not a WSU-specific issue by any means. It’s endemic to college basketball. And when you try to force a square peg into a round hole by doing it with Etienne as the ball handler, it’s not the best option. I dislike it as much as the next guy but it’s here to stay.

Took a quick look and the last time we didn’t have a player on our roster who has either been invited to an NBA training camp or been on an NBA roster? The first years of the Mark Turgeon era. This may be the first time since then we don’t have one unless something wild happens. That also matters. A lot.

[NCAABound]

A lot of people should refrain from posting until they come down from their adrenaline high from a bad game (or sober up)

And one of them has posted...now just waiting on the other.

[ShockTalk]

Honest question. Who else do we want shooting?

And a very fair question. While the team as a whole is not shooting the 3 well, only Jackson and Council are shooting the 3 better (well also Pleasant and Jenkins) but Grant and Porter are close to the same. Maybe the idea that ETN isn't going to shoot the volume of 3s he is currently, might help. When it comes to inside the arc, most of the team is shooting better (just not the bigs). Again, maybe less 3s more 2s might mix things up. What's being run now just doesn't seem to lead to scoring better.

The honeymoon for HCIB was over the moment he started making 6 digits. Generally, we're playing decent defense, but something is just not clicking on offense and it caught with us tonight.

[proshox]

Mo was great. The help the helper defense was non-existent.

We have too many guys that are unwilling to shoot a three pointer. Others will shoot, but they don’t shoot with confidence. The few willing to shoot don’t really defend.