Rebounding Huge Weakness-

[TheShocktocles]

Although rebounding is an issue this year, I see it getting better in the future with CJ, Ricky Council IV, and Craig Porter. All of them have showed a knack for getting the job done in some games. But I have not given up on this year. I still think our guys can improve. Just got to keep grinding and trying to improve. Go Shocks.

[ShockTalk]

Shockm Seems like you’re really freaking out here.

So, we’re not a great rebounding team. We still somehow found a way to get to 9-4, 5-2. Second place in league and a win or two away from being back in the at large conversation.

If I understand your general stance on the team it’s safe to say you predict we will play slightly above .500 ball the rest of the season, end up somewhere in the middle of the pack in conference, win a game in the American tourney, and not sniff an at large bid.

Is that the outcome the players, coaches, or fans want or expect? No.

It’s a strange season in that it’s February, the team has been practicing since November (October?), and yet they’ve only played 13 games. I still see a lot of the same mistakes that plagued us early - inexplicably bad transition defense, missed box outs, poor shot selection - albeit less often.

Time for improvement is quickly running out. We’re reaching the point where “we are what we are” if we aren’t there already. Yet somehow there is still also time to improve what I believe are correctable issues that would take this team from top 75 to top 30 or 40.

Since this deals with our rebounding, I think it's the biggest concern for me is this year and next. However, it has more to do with JoB than anything else. Is he still in the late stages of recovering and neither he or the coach wants to take too big a chance in the "extra" year? Are they on the same page?? If they are, and their is no potential "Midtgaard Problem", I'm good with his lack of play this year. I have serious doubts we will get our solution to the 5 for next year during the 2021 recruiting. It will be up to our current 3. That means a healthy JoB, fully ready to go.

[shock]

I'm convinced the original intent of this thread was "Marshall great - IB sucks". Just used rebounding as a different way to say the same thing we've heard forever from the original poster.

The guy who recruited and trained the guys who aren't rebounding is Marshall. Marshall did recruit the two guys who are rebounding (Council and Jackson) , but IB is the guy coaching them.

I'm not blaming Marshall or praising IB. I'm trying to point out that there are multiple ways of looking at things. I think it's obvious that both recruiting and coaching are involved in the boards that MU and IPBC get. Recruiting, but to a lesser degree coaching, with Council and Jackson, is a factor in their rebounding.

I don't think rebounding this year can be blamed on either IB or Marshall, but more likely Marshall. 6'7" guys who can predict the trajectory of a shot, establish position and jump are more likely to grab rebounds than 6'8" guys who can't do that.

I think the original intent of this thread was to ask where the coaching/developing is happening. I don’t see IB being even decent in that regard. Seems like assisting the head coach is his strength, and that’s okay.

[Shockm]

Although rebounding is an issue this year, I see it getting better in the future with CJ, Ricky Council IV, and Craig Porter. All of them have showed a knack for getting the job done in some games. But I have not given up on this year. I still think our guys can improve. Just got to keep grinding and trying to improve. Go Shocks.

Well, maybe we can move up to a Top 200 rebounding team them. We dropped quite a bit from last year ( from 53% to 47% which at last years percentage we would be a Top 51 Rebounding Team). We can’t get much lower since we are in the bottom 1/3 of Div. 1 Teams.

[Aargh]

I think the original intent of this thread was to ask where the coaching/developing is happening. I don’t see IB being even decent in that regard. Seems like assisting the head coach is his strength, and that’s okay.

And another IB hater chimes in with his expert opinion that IB is incapable of developing players because rebounding is down this year. Marshall had 2-1/2 years with the guys who aren't rebounding well this year, but somehow, IB is supposed to have turned them in top-notch rebounders in 3 months? What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now blamed on IB for not being able to do it in 3 months. What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now "proof: that IB is not able to develop players because he couldn't fix Udeze and Chandler in 3 months.

I'm not trying to say that IB is capable of developing players. I couldn't possibly have the access or knowledge to make that judgement. What I am saying is that using a lack of rebounding as justification that IB can't develop players is not going to be among the most brilliant posts on ShockerNet. It rankls right up there with some of the least brilliant.

If IB can't develop players for rebounding in 3 months, then how bad must Marshall have been to not be able to do it in 2-1/2 years? That's what this argument really comes down to if you consider the entirety of why this team doesn't rebound well.

[TheShocktocles]

And another IB hater chimes in with his expert opinion that IB is incapable of developing players because rebounding is down this year. Marshall had 2-1/2 years with the guys who aren't rebounding well this year, but somehow, IB is supposed to have turned them in top-notch rebounders in 3 months? What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now blamed on IB for not being able to do it in 3 months. What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now "proof: that IB is not able to develop players because he couldn't fix Udeze and Chandler in 3 months.

I'm not trying to say that IB is capable of developing players. I couldn't possibly have the access or knowledge to make that judgement. What I am saying is that using a lack of rebounding as justification that IB can't develop players is not going to be among the most brilliant posts on ShockerNet. It rankls right up there with some of the least brilliant.

If IB can't develop players for rebounding in 3 months, then how bad must Marshall have been to not be able to do it in 2-1/2 years? That's what this argument really comes down to if you consider the entirety of why this team doesn't rebound well.

Totally agree. Go shocks.

[Shockm]

And another IB hater chimes in with his expert opinion that IB is incapable of developing players because rebounding is down this year. Marshall had 2-1/2 years with the guys who aren't rebounding well this year, but somehow, IB is supposed to have turned them in top-notch rebounders in 3 months? What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now blamed on IB for not being able to do it in 3 months. What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now "proof: that IB is not able to develop players because he couldn't fix Udeze and Chandler in 3 months.

I'm not trying to say that IB is capable of developing players. I couldn't possibly have the access or knowledge to make that judgement. What I am saying is that using a lack of rebounding as justification that IB can't develop players is not going to be among the most brilliant posts on ShockerNet. It rankls right up there with some of the least brilliant.

If IB can't develop players for rebounding in 3 months, then how bad must Marshall have been to not be able to do it in 2-1/2 years? That's what this argument really comes down to if you consider the entirety of why this team doesn't rebound well.

They rebounded much better last year. We were almost Top 50 last year. This year, we are 244.

[shock]

They rebounded much better last year. We were almost Top 50 last year. This year, we are 244.

And added a couple guys that should be rebounding machines.

The system matters. The plays have to put everybody in position to succeed, not just the guy shooting the ball.

[shock]

And another IB hater chimes in with his expert opinion that IB is incapable of developing players because rebounding is down this year. Marshall had 2-1/2 years with the guys who aren't rebounding well this year, but somehow, IB is supposed to have turned them in top-notch rebounders in 3 months? What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now blamed on IB for not being able to do it in 3 months. What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now "proof: that IB is not able to develop players because he couldn't fix Udeze and Chandler in 3 months.

I'm not trying to say that IB is capable of developing players. I couldn't possibly have the access or knowledge to make that judgement. What I am saying is that using a lack of rebounding as justification that IB can't develop players is not going to be among the most brilliant posts on ShockerNet. It rankls right up there with some of the least brilliant.

If IB can't develop players for rebounding in 3 months, then how bad must Marshall have been to not be able to do it in 2-1/2 years? That's what this argument really comes down to if you consider the entirety of why this team doesn't rebound well.

Damn dude, calm down. Does development stop the moment the ball is tipped in the first game? We are seeing good development from a couple individuals, but the team itself isn’t changing and adapting. Those issues have to be recognized and addressed. IB has one of the best benches in D-1. Hustle shouldn’t be an issue, yet here we are.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

They rebounded much better last year. We were almost Top 50 last year. This year, we are 244.

Lost 4 of the top 6 rebounders from last year. Think that had anything to do with it? As someone else mentioned, playing a heck of a lot more zone this year as well. Think that has anything to do with it?

[Ashockalypse]

And another IB hater chimes in with his expert opinion that IB is incapable of developing players because rebounding is down this year. Marshall had 2-1/2 years with the guys who aren't rebounding well this year, but somehow, IB is supposed to have turned them in top-notch rebounders in 3 months? What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now blamed on IB for not being able to do it in 3 months. What Marshall couldn't do in 2-1/2 years is now "proof: that IB is not able to develop players because he couldn't fix Udeze and Chandler in 3 months.

I'm not trying to say that IB is capable of developing players. I couldn't possibly have the access or knowledge to make that judgement. What I am saying is that using a lack of rebounding as justification that IB can't develop players is not going to be among the most brilliant posts on ShockerNet. It rankls right up there with some of the least brilliant.

If IB can't develop players for rebounding in 3 months, then how bad must Marshall have been to not be able to do it in 2-1/2 years? That's what this argument really comes down to if you consider the entirety of why this team doesn't rebound well.

I don’t know if IB can develop players or not. A larger sample size is needed but if your obvious hatred for 3G has now extended to questioning whether HE could develop players then you need a good ole fashion psychiatric hospital. I think IB is doing some good things. Whether he is developing or not he sure as hell isnt getting them to rebound. He still has time and he can start tomorrow, but, rebounding and defense is how teams develop stellar records like we’ve had for the previous 13 years. Sorry that stings for you. Mo had trouble staying in the game for Marshall’s two years partly because he fouled a lot and because he couldn’t hold on to a rebound. You can’t develop everyone. You just have to get some players to rebound a lot more than we are and play more defense than in the last two games. And by the way I really like IB whether or not I think he will be the best candidate at the end of the season.

But tell me, did Marshall cut you off in his car or what?

[TheShocktocles]

Lost 4 of the top 6 rebounders from last year. Think that had anything to do with it? As someone else mentioned, playing a heck of a lot more zone this year as well. Think that has anything to do with it?

Lol. You need to stop posting factual information like this. Those that believe our current coach can't develop players dislike facts.

[Ashockalypse]

Lol. You need to stop posting factual information like this. Those that believe our current coach can't develop players dislike facts.

How does losing 4 of the top 6 rebounders prove that IB can develop players?

[Shockm]

Lost 4 of the top 6 rebounders from last year. Think that had anything to do with it? As someone else mentioned, playing a heck of a lot more zone this year as well. Think that has anything to do with it?

From Top 14% rebounding team to 70% or bottom 30%. That’s a drop off a Cliff.

Heres last years Top 6:
Jamerious was averaging 3.5 last year. AG is averaging 3.3 this year.
Eric S. Was averaging 4.7. Clarence is averaging 4.5
Sherfield was averaging 3.0. Tyson is averaging over 3.0
Trey Wade is averaging the same 5.8.
Dexter down 1.5 but Ricky is more than covering for him.

The biggie is that Jamie E. Was ave. 7.1, Morris at 2.8 ( same as this year in 1/2 the minutes), P.B. 2.1 ( same as this year in 1/2 minutes) Mitt 2. In 8 minutes. They didn’t all play in every game.
Last year we averaged 5+ Rebounds p/game. This year we are averaging -1 p/game, and that -1 includes out boarding ESU and KNC by +24.
We are not efficient rebounders. Morris and P. Bear are averaging the same in 1/2 the minutes. Why are we worse this year ? I think you need to find another answer.

[Aargh]

...your obvious hatred for 3G...

Give it up. I've pointed out some of GGG's weaknesses - and he had some. I've never hated the guy. Some out here think that if any posters don't slobber all over GGG's sack of nuts, that they hate GGG. It's not black and white. The absence of unconditional love doesn't imply the presence of hate.

The moment you start a post with a false assumption in order to cast the poster you're responding to in a negative light, you've pretty much lost credibility.

The point I'm trying to make in this uninformed evaluation of IB's player development is that the players Marshall worked with for 2-1/2 years aren't rebounding now and IB is being blamed for that because their inability to rebound is proof that IB can't develop players. SMH on that leap of logic.

If 2-1/2 years of player development under Marshall could produce adequate rebounding, then IPBC and MU would be adequate rebounders. If 2-1/2 years under Marshall's player development and 3 months under IB's player development don't produce adequate rebounders, then either Marshall and IB both failed, or maybe those guys were never going to be adequate rebounders.

2-1/2 years is 54 months. 3 months is 3 months. 54:3 is an 18:1 ratio. MU and IPBC had 18 times the player development under Marshall than they've had under IB. Blaming IB for their lack of player development because of their lack of rebounding is taking 1/18'th of their player development at WSU and assuming that's all IB's fault.

Seems like some of this hatred for IB goes to something other than the results in games. People are inventing ways to badmouth him as a coach. Blaming IB for the lack of rebounding ignores so many things that it's a loser's argument.