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  • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

    So they get a pass?

    Drake SOS History
    2020: 143 overall .. 291 Non-con
    2019: 173 overall, 133 non-con
    2018: 159 overall, 317 non-con
    2017: 161 overall, 215 non-con

    Not gonna keep going any farther, but you get the picture. Yea, COVID makes scheduling hard ... history tells us they wouldn't have scheduled any harder anyways.
    We have a way to adjust for schedule difficulty that doesn't just say, "your schedule means you can't lose a game," which I've outlined in previous posts. If we have a way to do that, shouldn't we? Again, what's your standard for inclusion/seeding in the tournament, and is it objective?

    Their past scheduling is meaningless and a red herring as far as this season is concerned.
    "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MoValley John View Post
      You guys are pissing me off with this dissing of the Drake. You gotta love the Drake!

      Its all about the Drake, bout the Drake like no other!

      CoffeeCakes_NewLook_720x.jpg

      When you believe in something, the only person that's gotta believe it is you. Everything else is for the birds.- LeVelle Moton
      Wichita is going to the rich side of town with a pack of matches and a five gallon tank of gasoline and try to burn everything to the ground

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      • Originally posted by Kel Varnsen View Post

        We have a way to adjust for schedule difficulty that doesn't just say, "your schedule means you can't lose a game," which I've outlined in previous posts. If we have a way to do that, shouldn't we? Again, what's your standard for inclusion/seeding in the tournament, and is it objective?

        Their past scheduling is meaningless and a red herring as far as this season is concerned.
        Sigh .... i give up.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

          So they get a pass?

          Drake SOS History
          2020: 143 overall .. 291 Non-con
          2019: 173 overall, 133 non-con
          2018: 159 overall, 317 non-con
          2017: 161 overall, 215 non-con

          Not gonna keep going any farther, but you get the picture. Yea, COVID makes scheduling hard ... history tells us they wouldn't have scheduled any harder anyways.
          Like I said, you don’t acknowledge how difficult it might be to put together a schedule, let alone at a school like Drake.

          You must have home games to pay the bills. We all know how willing the big schools are to head to Des Moines to take on a Drake team.

          You can just go on the road and take a bunch of bye games. That would probably increase your SOS but how many of those games will you actually win? A good SOS doesn’t mean crap if you lose all the games.

          Go find an exempt tournament and you’re bound to get good games. Sure, but again, the bigger names tend to get into the better tournaments. As we’ve seen, a field can look amazing when it’s scheduled years in advance but lackluster when the time actually comes to play the games.

          That’s not even taking into consideration lining up schedules, logistics, etc.

          The NCAA deck is already stacked against teams like Drake. I’d rather see them given the benefit of the doubt than other teams who are given 15 chances to get good wins just by virtue of what conference they’re in.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

            Like I said, you don’t acknowledge how difficult it might be to put together a schedule, let alone at a school like Drake.

            You must have home games to pay the bills. We all know how willing the big schools are to head to Des Moines to take on a Drake team.

            You can just go on the road and take a bunch of bye games. That would probably increase your SOS but how many of those games will you actually win? A good SOS doesn’t mean crap if you lose all the games.

            Go find an exempt tournament and you’re bound to get good games. Sure, but again, the bigger names tend to get into the better tournaments. As we’ve seen, a field can look amazing when it’s scheduled years in advance but lackluster when the time actually comes to play the games.

            That’s not even taking into consideration lining up schedules, logistics, etc.

            The NCAA deck is already stacked against teams like Drake. I’d rather see them given the benefit of the doubt than other teams who are given 15 chances to get good wins just by virtue of what conference they’re in.
            All that is well and good ...

            Their resume still isn't better than ours .. that's my point. In no world has what Drake has done mean they should be in but not WSU. If so ... let's load up on Chicago state, Air Force, North Dakota etc on our schedule next year.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

              All that is well and good ...

              Their resume still isn't better than ours .. that's my point. In no world has what Drake has done mean they should be in but not WSU. If so ... let's load up on Chicago state, Air Force, North Dakota etc on our schedule next year.
              I haven’t looked at their resume so I will take your word that ours is better. I didn’t really join the conversation until the SOS talk began.

              Worrying about what bracketologists are bracketologizing a month before the season ends seems futile. It’s like grading a test before the time allotted runs out.

              I personally just don’t like the look of criticizing a team like Drake when many of the same arguments were once used against us. It just feels a little KU fan-y. Like we’re all of a sudden snobs because we were fortunate enough to change conferences.

              “Yeah, but who did you play” always struck me as a BS argument from the BCS conferences who wouldn’t schedule games with us.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

                Really? Drake has no control over their conference schedule (that sounds awfully familiar). As far as their non-con goes, it’s kind of hard to fault them in a year like this, is it not? I imagine they’ve had cancellations like everyone else. How quickly we forget the challenges of scheduling for Valley teams.

                WSU fans have walked a mile in a team Drake’s shoes and shouldn’t forget it.
                Actually, the few cancellations (3) they had so far were ALL made up.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

                  I haven’t looked at their resume so I will take your word that ours is better. I didn’t really join the conversation until the SOS talk began.

                  Worrying about what bracketologists are bracketologizing a month before the season ends seems futile. It’s like grading a test before the time allotted runs out.

                  I personally just don’t like the look of criticizing a team like Drake when many of the same arguments were once used against us. It just feels a little KU fan-y. Like we’re all of a sudden snobs because we were fortunate enough to change conferences.

                  “Yeah, but who did you play” always struck me as a BS argument from the BCS conferences who wouldn’t schedule games with us.
                  Call it what you want .. the reason i posted the historical data that Kel wanted to throw out the window is that Drake's SOS has always been horrible. They have chosen to not schedule anyone for years now. That's their thing. That was never WSU's thing. That's why i don't feel sorry for them even in a COVID year. Loyola managed to schedule a couple good teams (and lost to them) so i'm not as hard on them getting a bid. They also dominated Drake. Still don't think they are anywhere near Top 10 where their metrics put them at, but they are likely a tourney team.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

                    I haven’t looked at their resume so I will take your word that ours is better. I didn’t really join the conversation until the SOS talk began.

                    Worrying about what bracketologists are bracketologizing a month before the season ends seems futile. It’s like grading a test before the time allotted runs out.

                    I personally just don’t like the look of criticizing a team like Drake when many of the same arguments were once used against us. It just feels a little KU fan-y. Like we’re all of a sudden snobs because we were fortunate enough to change conferences.

                    “Yeah, but who did you play” always struck me as a BS argument from the BCS conferences who wouldn’t schedule games with us.
                    You seem to support them without doing your research. We always got into tournaments with good teams and often won. They never risk it.

                    Comment


                    • Common sense says that a team tied for first or in second place in the 7th ranked conference shouldn’t be ranked below teams fro a conference several places below. Something wrong with the ratings systems.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                        You seem to support them without doing your research. We always got into tournaments with good teams and often won. They never risk it.
                        You didn't do your research. How many early season tournaments with good teams did we get in and win (or at least pick up really good victories)? Two in the last ten years (Mexico in 12-13 and CBE in 13-14)?
                        "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

                        Comment


                        • Honest question...if we replaced OSU and Mizzou with Air Force and South Dakota this year and were 14-2...do you think we'd be getting more respect?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NCAABound View Post
                            Honest question...if we replaced OSU and Mizzou with Air Force and South Dakota this year and were 14-2...do you think we'd be getting more respect?
                            If we beat the hell out of PrairieView A&M, we would probably be Top 50 according to these guys. Don’t risk it so high.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NCAABound View Post
                              Honest question...if we replaced OSU and Mizzou with Air Force and South Dakota this year and were 14-2...do you think we'd be getting more respect?
                              This year probably yes. The goalposts always seem to be moving for non-P5's.
                              FINAL FOURS:
                              1965, 2013

                              NCAA Tournament:
                              1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

                              NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

                              AP Poll History of Wichita State:
                              Number of Times Ranked: 157
                              Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
                              Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
                              Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

                              Highest Recent AP Ranking:
                              #3 - Dec. 2017
                              #2 ~ March 2014

                              Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
                              #2 ~ March 2014
                              Finished 2013 Season #4

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NCAABound View Post
                                Honest question...if we replaced OSU and Mizzou with Air Force and South Dakota this year and were 14-2...do you think we'd be getting more respect?
                                Of course.

                                This is exactly why WSU was unlikely to miss the tournament while in the MVC. WSU could come up empty-handed in regards to resume building non-conference wins, but still benefit by piling up wins (With Margin of Victory) while the rest of the country is busy taking L’s.

                                Brand Name + Gaudy Record = Tournament Appearances = Landry Shamet-Type Recruits = Gaudy Records = Tournament Appearances. Perfect Circle.

                                I am still wondering when this will become apparent to everyone.... I believe people are still confused because WSU had disappointing non-con seasons (injury bugs) which resulted in poor seeds.

                                Hopefully we are able to repeat the formula over the next four weeks.

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