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  • Originally posted by ArmyShockerFan View Post
    Without knowing the budget picture, it’s hard to know who would be in the pool of candidates. If it is unlimited, Charles Koch wants a national championship before he dies, offer Tony Bennett, Mark Few or Brad Stevens $10 million a year. If it is Isaac Brown, surround him with the best staff possible including Kennedy or another former successful head coach as an assistant.
    Let's be honest, IB's success has changed the operational environment. How many coaches are going to shy away due to IB's success? No one wants to follow Sinatra (a great performance) and no one wants to follow the coach who was in the running for AAC CoY (who really might win it) after he took over for the best coach in WSU history, and then was not hired. The new coach's margin of error would be minuscule and chances are he would not be as successful as the last two coaches.

    If I'm rambling, sorry. I'm 4x Tank 7s into writing this post.[/QUOTE]

    I think your entire post was spot on. The part I left is something I hadn't run into previously, but it will certainly be a consideration
    The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
    We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by molly jabali View Post
      Did not mean to start a firestorm , but I just saw this ... seriously??? Porter even with Sherfrld??? Again, not talking FIT.... and no room for Mitgaard???? And Fernandes?? ( frankly my favorite player last year) AND I SAID not counting Tyson... the best kid stayed... even TP had native talent... we lost some serious discontents/ playing time people/ logjam at a spot guys but you cant say they didn’t have talent... maybe we just see talent differently
      now I LOVE Gilbert .....
      Regardless of talent, chemistry was obviously bad. So let's stop comparing and start appreciating the great recovery from last year.

      Comment


      • Army fan, I was just trying to make the point that we don’t know the budget picture. If it is virtually unlimited because 1 of the richest men in the world wants to go for the best coach out there, than those are some of the coaches you would contact. I made up different amounts of $ to make the point that the coach you are going to try and hire depends on the size of your budget.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ArmyShockerFan View Post
          Without knowing the budget picture, it’s hard to know who would be in the pool of candidates. If it is unlimited, Charles Koch wants a national championship before he dies, offer Tony Bennett, Mark Few or Brad Stevens $10 million a year. If it is Isaac Brown, surround him with the best staff possible including Kennedy or another former successful head coach as an assistant.
          There are two huge assumptions about unlimited budgets:

          1. That Charles Koch actually cares if WSU wins a NC because his name is on the arena. And he actually cares enough to chip in for a 10m a year salary. Is CK's support due to his association with the university or his relationship with GM? And this is not a statement it really is a question.

          2. That these men are motivated by money which would propell them from their current job.

          A. Toney Bennet is going to leave Virginia, the defending national champion, who already makes 3.02 million and is a top 10 team this year?

          B. Mark Few is obviously not motivated by money or he could hav gone some where else. Few's contract is 1.8 million. Shaka Smart's contract is 3.2 and has achieved significantly less. In the last 20 years he definitely could have left for more money.

          C. Brad Stevens is going to leave the Celtics, making 3.6 million, living in a great town of Boston, coaching in the NBA, to move to Wichita Ks?

          I mean I guess, but it seems that all of these proposed coaching options are pure speculation. Every coach mentioned on shockernet, the before mentioned or Matta, Beilein, or Jans, I have not found one article that has tied anyone actually to WSU. It seems like a fantasy draft where personalities, relationships, budgets, current coaching situations, Athetic Departments, boosters, or the million other factors are not considered.

          I know we are all huge fans of WSU, that is why we are all on a message board discussing the minutiae of WSU athletics. This is our weakness, our fanaticism gets in the way and dismiss facts, assumptions, limitations, constraints and feel as though everyone is beating down our door to be our coach.

          Let's be honest, IB's success has changed the operational environment. How many coaches are going to shy away due to IB's success? No one wants to follow Sinatra (a great performance) and no one wants to follow the coach who was in the running for AAC CoY (who really might win it) after he took over for the best coach in WSU history, and then was not hired. The new coach's margin of error would be minuscule and chances are he would not be as successful as the last two coaches.

          If I'm rambling, sorry. I'm 4x Tank 7s into writing this post.[/QUOTE]

          Keep pounding those Tank 7s....

          "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Shocker82/85 View Post
            Army fan, I was just trying to make the point that we don’t know the budget picture. If it is virtually unlimited because 1 of the richest men in the world wants to go for the best coach out there, than those are some of the coaches you would contact. I made up different amounts of $ to make the point that the coach you are going to try and hire depends on the size of your budget.
            I didn't mean to come across as biting your head off, even though it probably did.

            It is an interesting proposition when you have a wealthy investor who is backing your program. I just don't think having an unlimited budget will get the best results.

            It's definitely more beneficial compared to a limited budget.

            The assumptions were directed at your post, but most of it was more about the overall comments that have been on shockernet about all of these coaches we are assuming are available.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

              Those are really good numbers.

              Last year: 9.9 mpg / 1.4 ppg / 0.8 rpg / 1.2 apg / 1 to pg / 0.62 st pg / 24% fg / 27% 3P / 75% FT

              Not a whole lot different than what Trevin has done this year. That’s not to say Trevin would make the same year one to year two leap as Noah or that Trevin is as good as Noah. Just trying to add some context to why I’m hesitant to make a judgment.
              How about that Trevin is a junior with 2 years JUCO and is the #3 PG. Noah is a sophomore and is a starter. You're comparing a junior with a freshman for 1st year player stats. It's really not important. Noah found a great place for himself with a young team that may make some noise the next 2 or 3 years. Actually, I'm a little concerned for next year at the point assuming AG moves on. Porter and Wade aren't "demanding" the playing time this year that might be needed for them to lead the Shocks next year.

              Comment


              • I'm confident that Charles Koch wants a good product, resulting in a good image for his brand. He wants the name of the arena mentioned on TV with a winner inside the building. Charles Koch didn't become one of the wealthiest men in the nation by spending more than is necessary. He's not going to hand Boatright a blank, signed check and tell Boatright to go shopping.

                If Koch is going to finance a coach, Koch is going to require everything but a DNA test, and he might want that, too. Koch funding a new coach should probably be put right up there with hiring Beilein or Matta. Possible, but highly unlikely. Koch may pitch in a bit to help out if he's convinced it's the right move.
                The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Atxshoxfan View Post

                  Regardless of talent, chemistry was obviously bad. So let's stop comparing and start appreciating the great recovery from last year.
                  I don’t think anyone is NOT enjoying the ride... not the point in this discussion... the relative point STARTED way long ago about rebounding and ( IIRC) why hasn’t IHCIB done a better job on coaching it, which my original point was , he was not left with great natural rebounders ( I DO agree players can be coached to overcome lack of skill set to be better, but my point it takes time, which the Shockers are 17 games into a new regime ).... anyway, my contention which I now regret saying but don’t back off of at all, is that , EXCEPT FOR TYSON AND DEXTER( at times) the shockers had better talent( YES I KNOW THE CHEMISTRY WAS HORRIBLE.... we ALL do!!!!)
                  but Pie does not agree which is his right... I think most people are ecstatic about the “ the ride”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post

                    How about that Trevin is a junior with 2 years JUCO and is the #3 PG. Noah is a sophomore and is a starter. You're comparing a junior with a freshman for 1st year player stats. It's really not important. Noah found a great place for himself with a young team that may make some noise the next 2 or 3 years. Actually, I'm a little concerned for next year at the point assuming AG moves on. Porter and Wade aren't "demanding" the playing time this year that might be needed for them to lead the Shocks next year.
                    I’m not trying to take anything away from Noah or imply that he isn’t talented. Obviously he is.

                    Would Noah be ahead of Trevin this year if he’d stayed? I think it’s pretty easy to assume that. But that gets back to my original point which is experience, more so than raw talent, is the main thing we lost when all of those guys left. Experience at the D1 level, at WSU, etc.

                    We saw what a lack of experience does the last two years when we struggled at times.

                    Trevin played big minutes early when we needed, has apparently been dealing with a nagging injury lately, and is playing behind 5th year senior Gilbert. Unless Gilbert comes back I agree the PG position is a question mark but I also wouldn’t be surprised if one or both of Porter/Wade made a leap next year due to a more regular offseason, better health, and less turmoil.


                    Comment


                    • My theory is that we lost a lot of identity when we had that huge graduation class. We basically had Jamie and McDuffie left to teach the young guys how to do things. Jaime was pretty soft as a junior and McDuffie was not a natural leader, so a lot of the toughness and grit got lost. We have guys on this team with potential to bring it back, but they have to figure it out, they aren’t learning by watching the older guys.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by molly jabali View Post
                        I don’t think anyone is NOT enjoying the ride... not the point in this discussion... the relative point STARTED way long ago about rebounding and ( IIRC) why hasn’t IHCIB done a better job on coaching it, which my original point was , he was not left with great natural rebounders ( I DO agree players can be coached to overcome lack of skill set to be better, but my point it takes time, which the Shockers are 17 games into a new regime ).... anyway, my contention which I now regret saying but don’t back off of at all, is that , EXCEPT FOR TYSON AND DEXTER( at times) the shockers had better talent( YES I KNOW THE CHEMISTRY WAS HORRIBLE.... we ALL do!!!!)
                        but Pie does not agree which is his right... I think most people are ecstatic about the “ the ride”
                        Obviously I don’t agree but I’d be interested to see some actual analysis on your opinion rather than just “they were more talented”.

                        I did a breakdown of rebounding averages from last year. Aside from Jaime, Erik was the only guy from last years roster who out performed his current year counterpart in rebounds per game. Monzy and Ricky both average more boards than anyone who left with the exception of Erik.

                        Comment


                        • Aargh and Army Man - My main point on page 133, post #1985, has NOTHING to do with Charles Koch. I only used his name to illustrate the differences between a pie in the sky budget down to an austere budget. You might get the same result with a low priced, medium priced or high priced coach but the size of your budget determines who is included in your pool of candidates. Coach Brown could be the best candidate even if your budget allows for a high priced coach, but you can only consider the high priced or medium priced coach if you have the $ to pay them.

                          Comment


                          • Brown has all but locked this job up unless something catastrophic happens between now and the end of the season.

                            Win over the highest ranked opponent in Wichita since 1967. Smithson never beat a team as highly ranked as Houston (in Wichita). Neither did Marshall.

                            Probable CoY in the AAC. Getting mentioned for NCoY honors. Optics of hiring anybody else are starting to look really bad. Then there's the perspective from prospective hires. How many available coaches want to replace a potential conference CoY?

                            Brown has experience recruiting AAC-level players for several years. Jans has experience recruiting MVC, OVC, and WAC players. He's been incredibly successful recruiting WAC winners. His first year was almost a complete turnover and rebuild. We know Jans can close the deal. We know Brown can set up the close for AAC-level players. We don't know if either Brown or Jans can close the deal on AAC-level players.
                            The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                            We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

                            Comment


                            • Uh how many chances did Marshall get at beating a Top 6 team at home?
                              Deuces Valley.
                              ... No really, deuces.
                              ________________
                              "Enjoy the ride."

                              - a smart man

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aargh View Post
                                Brown has all but locked this job up unless something catastrophic happens between now and the end of the season.
                                You have absolutely no idea if this is the case.

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