Former Shockers Media Mentions & Updates

[ShockTalk]

Kind of crazy that Marshall was able to keep this ego from blowing up the team.

Sooooo......what brought this on??

I believe that Cle was a "Consensus" All-American. Because of that, I do think he should have his number hanging in the rafters. However, it is also who you did it with and their impact on that.

As a pro, he's not even 1st Team WSU.

[WuShock16]

Sooooo......what brought this on??

I believe that Cle is WSU's only "Consensus" All-American. Because of that, I do think he should have his number hanging in the rafters. However, it is also who you did it with and their impact on that.

As a pro, he's not even 1st Team WSU.

Only? Ever? Leading the nation in scoring and rebounding wouldn’t get consensus honors?

[ShockTalk]

Only? Ever? Leading the nation in scoring and rebounding wouldn’t get consensus honors?

You will have to talk to those that vote, but I'm pretty sure Cle is our only "Consensus All-American". NOT.

[ShockTalk]

My (big) mistake. Stallworth (twice) 1st team 1963-64 and 2nd team 1964-65, McDaniel 1st team 1984-85, and Early 2nd team 2013-14. Under different rules at the time: McBurney, 1st team 1926-27.

[Dan]

Stallworth, X and Carr have to be consensus Top 3 WSU players. I’d put Cle in Tier 2 with Fred, Cleo and Levingston.

[Topshock]

My (big) mistake. Stallworth (twice) 1st team 1963-64 and 2nd team 1964-65, McDaniel 1st team 1984-85, and Early 2nd team 2013-14. Under different rules at the time: McBurney, 1st team 1926-27.

You beat me to it, LOL.

Early definitely meets the current standard to have his Jersey retired as an All American. That standard may soon be changing for Van Vleet however.

I think he definitely comes in behind this list as greatest Shocker: Stallworth, McDaniel, Carr, Levingston, Armstrong, Van Vleet and Johnson, for this reason.

While his talent was amazing, he took more than a few games off, where he wasn't ready to play or just didn't want to play against lesser opponents. The ones in the above list seldom or never took a game off. By game off, I mean he played just not very well.

[Kung Wu]

Doc: “Cle talent + Freddy everything else = GOAT level.”

With a few algebraic manipulations to your formula, I was able to reduce it to:

Freddy everything = GOAT level

[Dan]

With a few algebraic manipulations to your formula, I was able to reduce it to:

Freddy everything = GOAT level

Agree had he hit that shot against Kentucky.

[Onegreatracer]

With a few algebraic manipulations to your formula, I was able to reduce it to:

Freddy everything = GOAT level

Agree. Fred is the greatest Shocker ever imo

[JVShocker]

I never saw a game with Stallworth, but there's a reason why he has a statue outside the basketball venue. (enough said)

Personally, I was lucky to play a lot of pickup basketball with shocker players over the years, and I got to watch a lot of amazing Shocker basketball in the late 1970s through 2020, and watching Fred/Ron/Evan/Cle/Tekele could at times be shockingly good, but nobody will ever touch X-Man in my mind. He had (9) 20 point 20 rebound games. That's like one every 3 games. He never took a night off for effort. You've heard of "A" for effort? Like Ralphie, he was




An exceptional back to the basket player, his turnaround jumper from anywhere on the floor was a thing of beauty. Fans would track his points and rebounds during the game. And he was intense, personified. As an NBA player, he played (arguably) during the most physical era of professional basketball, when hard fouls were the norm, not the exception. Few if any were as intimidating as X.

Here ya go: The first two highlights from the NBA are stunning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXZj8B_czVk

[WstateU]

I never saw a game with Stallworth, but there's a reason why he has a statue outside the basketball venue. (enough said)

Personally, I was lucky to play a lot of pickup basketball with shocker players over the years, and I got to watch a lot of amazing Shocker basketball in the late 1970s through 2020, and watching Fred/Ron/Evan/Cle/Tekele could at times be shockingly good, but nobody will ever touch X-Man in my mind. He had (9) 20 point 20 rebound games. That's like one every 3 games. He never took a night off for effort. You've heard of "A" for effort? Like Ralphie, he was




An exceptional back to the basket player, his turnaround jumper from anywhere on the floor was a thing of beauty. Fans would track his points and rebounds during the game. And he was intense, personified. As an NBA player, he played (arguably) during the most physical era of professional basketball, when hard fouls were the norm, not the exception. Few if any were as intimidating as X.

Here ya go: The first two highlights from the NBA are stunning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXZj8B_czVk

I've seen 'em all.

Ross, Dave the Rave, Armstrong, Carr, Levingston and steady Freddie; all great players and it's difficult to choose the All-Time GOAT, but 'pound per pound'...

[Atxshoxfan]

I've seen 'em all.

Ross, Dave the Rave, Armstrong, Carr, Levingston and steady Freddie; all great players and it's difficult to choose the All-Time GOAT, but 'pound per pound'...

I second that analysis as far as individual play. But would give to Fred for team contribution.

[Aargh]

X wasn't supposed to be a team player. Once he got the ball he was SUPPOSED to score, not get teammates involved. 20 rebounds in a game is a pretty good contribution to the team.

Fred was high-level good when he was here, but he improved DRASTICALLY after spending a couple years with Lowry. I watched every one of Fred's AAU games between his junior and senior years in HS. Everything he did here, he was already doing in those games. FVV smoked the #1, #3, and #5 nationally rated PG's in those games. He was easily the #1 PG on the AAU circuit that year. And that included the top PG's from several HS classes.

Fred belongs in the same grouping with Stallworth, Carr, Armstrong, and X. It's impossible to rank players in that group. Too many apples/oranges because of positions, playing styles, and time frames. I think I'd put Baker in that group too. His ability to play physical affected games in ways that didn't always show up on stat sheets.

[BostonWu]

Cle had 2 of the most impactful years in WSU history but not in the overall top 10.

[ShockingButTrue]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm guessing Cle's 'then' means from his time here forward. If that's the case, ok.