What is the primary issue plaguing our Shockers?

[BOBB]

I agree; but there's only so many times I can say "we've turned a corner" before we've turned so many we've gone in a circle and nothing seems to have progressed.

My grandpa could get you anywhere on Wichita making only right turns.

[Aargh]

The offensive scheme is non-existent and it's clear that the players don't feel empowered playing in the offense. They play scared and then end up taking a bad shot at the end of the shot clock because it's the only shot Gregg can't get mad at them for.

Perhaps the emphasis is on making the extra pass. If that's in play, then players are thinking about positioning themselves for the next pass, finding players, etc. I've seen LOTS of open looks passed up. Guys have 6' clear when they catch the ball, but they will never take an early open shot. Instead they dribble to some other spot and let the defender catch up with the ball.

Marshall's system is supposed to be really complex and hard to learn. If that's the case, it seems it should be a little harder to defend.

If players aren't going to take open shots early in the shot clock, then defenders know they can play off a little bit to prevent a drive. Then later in the shot clock they guard closely and the perimeter guys start dribbling back and forth to try for an open look they never get. Either the Shox perimeter guys aren't very quick and can't break past a decent defender, or perhaps there's so much emphasis on D in practice that the perimeter guys never get much time to work on driving. Working on drives against Herrs and Busse doesn't have much value in games in this league.

I'm kind of in agreement with the theory that a shot as the clock is running down might be the only shot that doesn't get their butts chewed.

[OregonShocker]

Perhaps the emphasis is on making the extra pass. If that's in play, then players are thinking about positioning themselves for the next pass, finding players, etc. I've seen LOTS of open looks passed up. Guys have 6' clear when they catch the ball, but they will never take an early open shot. Instead they dribble to some other spot and let the defender catch up with the ball.

Marshall's system is supposed to be really complex and hard to learn. If that's the case, it seems it should be a little harder to defend.

If players aren't going to take open shots early in the shot clock, then defenders know they can play off a little bit to prevent a drive. Then later in the shot clock they guard closely and the perimeter guys start dribbling back and forth to try for an open look they never get. Either the Shox perimeter guys aren't very quick and can't break past a decent defender, or perhaps there's so much emphasis on D in practice that the perimeter guys never get much time to work on driving. Working on drives against Herrs and Busse doesn't have much value in games in this league.

I'm kind of in agreement with the theory that a shot as the clock is running down might be the only shot that doesn't get their butts chewed.

Part of this was actually discussed in the pregame by Bob; the fact that Memphis would play tight early in the shot clock knowing WSU wants to pound inside and then jump out on the shooters later to force a bad shot. Honestly, though, I saw plenty of early 3's being taken, so I can't blame offensive lackluster on that necessarily.

[WUs Your Daddy II]

No should it. But if there isn't a buffer individual to go to, then it can bring down the morale of the strongest player. I suspect FVV, Baker, etc.had that someone; PERHAPS that individual (assistant?) is gone now.

That person is gone, it was Heiar—who was also the main player development guy.

[wsushox1]

Perhaps the emphasis is on making the extra pass. If that's in play, then players are thinking about positioning themselves for the next pass, finding players, etc. I've seen LOTS of open looks passed up. Guys have 6' clear when they catch the ball, but they will never take an early open shot. Instead they dribble to some other spot and let the defender catch up with the ball.

Marshall's system is supposed to be really complex and hard to learn. If that's the case, it seems it should be a little harder to defend.

If players aren't going to take open shots early in the shot clock, then defenders know they can play off a little bit to prevent a drive. Then later in the shot clock they guard closely and the perimeter guys start dribbling back and forth to try for an open look they never get. Either the Shox perimeter guys aren't very quick and can't break past a decent defender, or perhaps there's so much emphasis on D in practice that the perimeter guys never get much time to work on driving. Working on drives against Herrs and Busse doesn't have much value in games in this league.

I'm kind of in agreement with the theory that a shot as the clock is running down might be the only shot that doesn't get their butts chewed.

Those who are smarter than me can probably develop some sort of Bayesian analysis on probability of getting an open shot as the shot clock winds down and the expected value of making that shot - but I'd imagine it's a lot less than with 15-20 seconds left on the clock.

TBH, a lot of it is shot selection which comes back to Dan 's whole point of a low team BBIQ which I also agree with. Shot selection and BBIQ go hand in hand. BUT, sometimes you can overcoach the "feel" and "creativity" out of an offense. Not saying that's what is happening this season but things are so damn rigid offensively I do have to wonder if Marshall is in their heads.

[ShockerFever]

I get being upset about the loss, I’m not happy about it either. But, as of right now it’s just one game, against a tough team, on the road. The season is not over yet.

Personally, I don’t feel the need to make any big proclamations about the state of the program. Obviously others want to and that’s their choice. We all want the Shockers to be as successful as possible. To me, the issues seem fixable and I’m not closing the book on this season.

Just one game? Actually it's about 5 games where they could not shoot their way out of a paper bag and we all have been hoping the "light would come on". At this point in the year, you are what you are.

[Shock&awe]

The entire team is more soft than Charmin. Great coaches put their players in situations to be successful. If you're going 5+ minutes without FGs multiple times a game there is an issue with the game plan. Lomax running this offense would have been fun to watch, what we're watching is not.

[top20shock]

A bit of a run in the NIT for this team might be helpful going into next year.

FO

[1989]

I picked youth. A team full of freshman and sophomores that have the talent level of our freshman and sophomores aren’t going to be elite. I expect this group (if we can keep them together) to be much better next year as sophomores and juniors, which is saying a lot because it’s not like we are terrible this year.

[WstateU]

Hope it’s not “LOFT”... that’s difficult to overcome without “playing in the slop”.

[pie n eye]

Just one game? Actually it's about 5 games where they could not shoot their way out of a paper bag and we all have been hoping the "light would come on". At this point in the year, you are what you are.

Yes, I do agree that, more or less, we are what we are at this point. Which, IMO, is an inconsistent shooting team that struggles to score which can bleed into other areas of the game such as missing box outs, middle school level turnovers, and just focus in general.

However, I say “it’s just one game” because we’ve also shown the ability to beat every team in the conference except Houston obviously. The team can’t let this loss bleed over into the next game.

It’s unlikely but until there are no more games left to play this year the possibility exists for the light to turn on.

[pie n eye]

The entire team is more soft than Charmin. Great coaches put their players in situations to be successful. If you're going 5+ minutes without FGs multiple times a game there is an issue with the game plan. Lomax running this offense would have been fun to watch, what we're watching is not.

I really wish we would have recruited Lomax.

[LandStander]

I’ve seen is a lot of bad passes. The offense is stagnant sure, but it’s also executed poorly. I’ve seen actual offense run and an open look but because of a bad pass, the shooter must reach for the ball and then reset and by that time the defender has closed in. Just a lot of sloppiness on the fundamentals. That’s obvious in the turnovers we see every game. Bad execution and poor consistency. It’s like the players have no idea where anyone else will be at any given time. So they are not playing as a team.

I definitely think it’s a combination of things that have plagued the team. If it was only one or a few problems I think they’d get it figured out by now. So it’s definitely a multitude of issues. There are positives with this team. We saw it early on. There are also negatives which we see now. Where does that leave us? Well, as a fan base it leaves us frustrated with many questions and few answers. Easy to why some lash out or why others cling to hope. I guess I’m somewhere trapped in the middle. But as always, I try to have hope for the future.

[WstateU]

The non box-out on the missed free throw, really put me in a tizzy.

[pie n eye]

The non box-out on the missed free throw, really put me in a tizzy.

Same and add in Echinique’s missed box out on Precious a few plays earlier. Granted, he was fouled and Precious is an elite rebounder so it’s easier said than done but how the hell are we not locating him and putting a forearm in his chest on every possession?