Future?

[ShockAzs]

IPBC will be a star, all conference player. It remains to be seen what his pro potential will be, but I suspect he had it.

Dennis will also be a star.

Asbjorn GodBearGod (seriously, how had this not been said yet?) . He'll be a major force in the aac

[WSUwatcher]

Too bad Matt Shaw doesn't post here, Root -- he might have beaten you to the punch.

[Shockm]

DD, and AM have seemed to turn the corner and their ceiling is a high one.

PB has also shown a high ceiling this year during his few minutes when the other two were in foul trouble or the win a sure thing. I’m not sure of the rationale but I trust GM who has seen him daily. He has only played in 25/30 games averaging less than 9 minutes in the 25. That would figure to about 5 minutes a game. But we will see what happens. I’m certainly not against him being in our program. He has the potential to see the light Sooner or later but at this time, I’m not sure how soon.

[Stickboy46]

It’s impossible to predict who may be leaving. IMO, we are only recruiting talent that may increase our talent pool, especially players who have higher ceilings to move us forward in the American Conference, whose talent level seems to be rising also. This team would already be leading the Valley and likely headed toward another NCAA tourney berth. If we wish to continue to be relevant nationally, we need to continue to improve our talent level. We can’t afford to continue waiting on players such as Shaq to wait until they are Jrs. and Seniors to be ready to play. We need to have 10-12 players ready to compete from Day 1. This year we probably have 5-6 that are USUALLY ready (and maybe not that many). In other words, we don’t have very many consistent players although they have improved during the year to be fairly consistent defensively.

I doubt we sign more than one or two, and I have a couple of opinions on which players are least ready, who is less consistent, while I’m not sure who may be homesick, etc. But I have a strong feeling, we are not ready to compete for a NC yet, and that should be our goal.

Very few if any schools have 10-12 players ready to compete from Day 1. That just doesn't happen. We just need to not have 10-12 people that have never played D1 ball before.

[proshox]

As stated above, someone always leaves so that is my baseline.

I also know it is impossible to determine which of our guards will raise their shooting percentages next year. I feel pretty good about all of them, but the last few games against the bottom end of the conference may be fool’s gold. Ultimately I would be happy to have each of them back.

Assuming someone is leaving... I am looking for the player least likely to contribute next year. IMO, Morris is the guy we will not miss next year and can be replaced. I think the long term upside is there and I have no issue with him staying, but he is next year's most replaceable player. We already have a 3 headed monster, he is unlikely to play much or well due to health (good chance he needs to redshirt), and he has the lowest upside of the four post players.

With that stated, I am completely happy with him and all others staying. I am just looking for an emotional hedge against a Austin Reaves type situation. That hurt.

[Dan]

It is possible that Chance Moore is that guy and may be the only one

[wusphlash]

The last part of the year Gregg was splitting minutes between 10 players because of Teddy's redshirt, Chance's departure and Morris' injury. Next year, assuming no redshirts, he will have 13 available. He's not going to split time 13 ways. Some will see limited, limited time. Regardless of whether a current player leaves or not there will be a different dynamic at the end of the bench.

[Shockm]

Very few if any schools have 10-12 players ready to compete from Day 1. That just doesn't happen. We just need to not have 10-12 people that have never played D1 ball before.

Probably not but when Marshall is at his best, we have depth (NIT Championship and 31-0). The days when we can wait until their Junior/Senior years for productive performances are probably over (if our goal is to be a NC), and it changed when we left the Valley. I think that JE, AM, DD, and JB have proven themselves. In fact, I think that their performances and TA (from his Freshman year in the Big 12) are possible studs. I still feel good about ES, although he has work to do at this level. PBC, RB, and RT, MU imo have all had moments that show potential, but I think have a lot more to prove and we can't afford to wait until they are Seniors to show it. Recruiting more high level players is the path to a NC.

[pie n eye]

I think Juniors and Seniors are exactly what we’re going to need to win a NC. Of course we want to bring in the best possible players each year to keep the pipeline going but, IMO, our success is still going to rely on “getting old and staying old”.

I would have considered a team with Sr - McDuffie, Shamet, Samaje and Jr - Reaves an older experienced team so I’m not saying it has to be entirely upperclassmen.

[Stickboy46]

Probably not but when Marshall is at his best, we have depth (NIT Championship and 31-0). The days when we can wait until their Junior/Senior years for productive performances are probably over (if our goal is to be a NC), and it changed when we left the Valley. I think that JE, AM, DD, and JB have proven themselves. In fact, I think that their performances and TA (from his Freshman year in the Big 12) are possible studs. I still feel good about ES, although he has work to do at this level. PBC, RB, and RT, MU imo have all had moments that show potential, but I think have a lot more to prove and we can't afford to wait until they are Seniors to show it. Recruiting more high level players is the path to a NC.

The teams that are above us in conference are all heavily driven by Juniors/Seniors.

Starting Lineups
Houston - 3 Sr, 1 JR, 1 So
Cincy - 2 Sr, 3 Jr
UCF - 2 Sr, 2 Jr, 1 So
Temple - 2 Sr 1 Jr, 1 So
Memphis - 5 SR

So not a single team ahead of us in conference relied on a guy "on day one"

Let's look at last years NC game
Nova Starters - Redshirt Junior, Redshirt Freshman, Redshirt Junior, Junior, Redshirt Junior. (Add in Redshirt Sophomore for DiVincenzo since he had 31).
Michigan - Junior, Freshman, Junior, Redshirt Sophomore, Senior (one other person played more than 15 min, a 5th year senior)

So between the 2 national title teams, they started or heavily played a total of 2 people with less than 3 years of college experience. Nova had Spellman with a grand total of 8 points, and Michigan had Livers with zero points.

So it doesn't look like you have to have "Day 1" contributors to with titles ... conference or national.

EDIT:
2017 NC game
North Carolina - 2 Sr, 3 Jr
Gonzaga - Redshirt Sr, 2 Redshirt Jr, Senior, Redshirt Sophomore

[ShockTalk]

im4wsu, check your messages.

[12eagle]

I get tired of hearing guys say that they want a guard that can penetrate. Well that's not our system. We start almost all our sets with 3 players in or around the paint, clogging the paint for drives. When we execute the sets well, they work but we are not a spread the floor with shooters and let one guy penetrate and dish system. Put 4 shooters around Burton and spread the floor and I bet he could drive to the rim all day but as we stand now we don't have enough shooting to space the floor.

[Topshock]

Spreading the floor will probably never happen since we stubbornly refused to do it last year when we had one of the best collection of shooters ever put on the floor.

[im4wsu]

Topshock[/URL] commented Spreading the floor will probably never happen since we stubbornly refused to do it last year when we had one of the best collection of shooters ever put on the floor.

Last year's team ranked 7th in 3-pt% in Shocker lore

shooting.png

[wufan]

Just to point out...the three teams from the 80s shot from the current “girls” 3 point line.

[WstateU]

It was like a lay-up back in those days...

[im4wsu]

Shocktalk spotted an inconsistency in the two-man plus-minus tables, so I've redone them. The main ones that changed were Burton and Torres, but I'm reproducing them all in these two postings:
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[ABC]

I get tired of hearing guys say that they want a guard that can penetrate. Well that's not our system. We start almost all our sets with 3 players in or around the paint, clogging the paint for drives. When we execute the sets well, they work but we are not a spread the floor with shooters and let one guy penetrate and dish system. Put 4 shooters around Burton and spread the floor and I bet he could drive to the rim all day but as we stand now we don't have enough shooting to space the floor.

How did "penetrate" not get censored. Just wondering.

[im4wsu]

twoman-4.png
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[WuDrWu]

NM

[Shocktoberfest]

Last year's team ranked 7th in 3-pt% in Shocker lore

shooting.png

So top 3 were all Fogler teams? Interesting. Who the heck was launching those shots other than Cooper or Guff?

[Dan]

Joe Griffin, Lew Hill, Pralows, Coop and Guff

[WuDrWu]

Um, the BEST 3 point shooter in the history of Shocker basketball, Gary Cundiff.

[Shocktoberfest]

Gary wrapped it up in 87 I thought. But yeah. Dude could stroke it. Never forget the dagger at Tulsa. That was a Gene team though.

[Topshock]

Last year's team ranked 7th in 3-pt% in Shocker lore

shooting.png

Yes the actual percentage was not commensurate to the quality of shooters in my opinion. Spreading the floor would have opened up the lane for driving allowing the ball to be kicked back out for open shots. I feel we had the personnel to make a very high percentage of open 3 pointers. Unfortunately the offence we chose to run didn't provide many wide open shots.

[pinstripers]

So Eddie Fogler ends up on a thread titled Future