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  • We have great group of guys and I hope they all decide to come back. Ricky can be a liability on defense sometimes but hopefully he can improve in that area as well as his 3pt shooting. Seems like his stance is a bit wonky, but his stance and mechanics are smooth as can be on those pull up jumpers he likes to take. If can sort that out this summer, him and Burton will be a great combination that will allow Fernandez to be eased into the lineup at the point.

    Comment


    • pinstripers
      pinstripers commented
      Editing a comment
      We absolutely gonna grab Sherfield if we can. If that happens, a guard will leave.

    • Walker
      Walker commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree, it seems like they’re all in on Sherfield and it seems like a guy or two leaves every year. If it doesn’t though, I like the guys we have.

  • Originally posted by Bluzrover View Post
    I think the offseason is going to be interesting because I just don't really know that I want any of the current crop of young players to go anywhere. But I'm torn as I certainly would love to see Gregg add another high level recruit to the roster. I just don't know who, at this point, is really likely to leave on his own volition. But it does happen and I guess we'll have to wait a few weeks, if not months, before we learn who that might be.
    Whatever happens this off season will be a big improvement over what happened last year.
    I won't tolerate rude behavior

    Comment


    • I expect Marshall will bring in one more, and bringing in two would not surprise me a bit. Bringing in two would mean that one current player that's popular with at least some fans would be leaving.
      The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
      We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Aargh View Post
        I expect Marshall will bring in one more, and bringing in two would not surprise me a bit. Bringing in two would mean that one current player that's popular with at least some fans would be leaving.
        I might be a little concerned that signing another guard could make a currently signed recruit feel like he was being recruited over more so than a current guard with experience under Marshall.

        Comment


        • I haven't really wanted to comment during the season about possible "departures" thus far due to wanting to watch it all play out for the remainder of the season... but if we wanna compete for Top-3 in the AAC annually and be in the running for at-large March bids...in my humble opinion it sure seems plausible that 2-3 players may not be coming back next year. I just don't see how a few of them can become solid players for a Top-3 AAC team.

          Great young men...but you gotta be able to hit 3 pointers all the while playing really high level defense.

          Sure it would be somewhat risky having just one point guard returning for next year in Jamarius Burton...but having two new highly regarded guards coming in can hopefully lighten the blow a bit and potenially have a projected higher ceiling by their sophomore seasons.

          ES and Ricky just can't hit a shot to save their lives and is a complete deal breaker at this level from the guard positions. Throw in neither are very good defenders...and teams will just take it to the hole at them all next year again for a basket, assist or foul. Can't shoot, can't defend...yikes...probably not what GM was expecting when they signed on.

          Rod Brown for all practical purposes gives us basically nothing (even after a red-shirt season) at his position. There may have been some development in practices that the coaches were encouraged by...but again just not enough for Top-3 AAC level play to continue on with.

          Unfortunately those 3 are not seniors and due to lack of efficiency are probably considered to be replaceable should the coaches be able to sign a better player heading in to next season.

          It sucks to say that...but 3G is used to being at the top and certainly doesn't want his program falling to a mediocer Tulsa type level.



          FINAL FOURS:
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          AP Poll History of Wichita State:
          Number of Times Ranked: 157
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          Highest Recent AP Ranking:
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          Finished 2013 Season #4

          Comment


          • Dan
            Dan commented
            Editing a comment
            Also remember that our final 4 year we had zero point guards coming back. Armstead was a transfer that hadn’t played a game at WSU and FVV was an incoming highly regarded freshman.

          • B1ShockFan
            B1ShockFan commented
            Editing a comment
            Can not agree with you at all on Erik, he brings so much with his hustle, passing, rebounding and does have a decent shot. He probably has best package of skills as any current player. His shot and defense will improve. He is definitely a keeper.

          • ShockTalk
            ShockTalk commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't think, Dan, that comparing this year's crop of a freshman PG, a first year JUCO pg, and a senior who only logged 200+ minutes the year before and is a so-called PG who didn't play the point in his 2nd JUCO year is any comparison to a freshman PG, a senior combo guard with 4 years in the program, a 5th year accomplished senior PG who had a RS year in the program, and a sophomore SF who played PG in high school as any comparison at all.

        • I don’t like see players leave but when they do, it generally results in an overall upgrade for the team. I think there’s only one obvious potential departure and I think he could be a decent player if he stays. Also, if he leaves, we need someone that plays a similar role and it looks like our best chance at a signing is another guard.

          Comment


          • N Crestway
            N Crestway commented
            Editing a comment
            Next year will be another rebuilding year with a young team. Unless there are team chemistry issues with an individual, think Marshall will have everybody coming back.

        • I am glad this isn't my problem. I wonder when HCGM started his head coaching journey is he fully understood/appreciated the extent to which the job requires he and his staff being alchemists. Striving to achieve results based on a right balance of talent and chemistry cannot be easy, throw in the decision making skills of 18-22 year old young men and it is not a job I would want to undertake.

          Go Shocks!
          “Losers Average Losers.” ― Paul Tudor Jones

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DUShock View Post
            I am glad this isn't my problem. I wonder when HCGM started his head coaching journey is he fully understood/appreciated the extent to which the job requires he and his staff being alchemists. Striving to achieve results based on a right balance of talent and chemistry cannot be easy, throw in the decision making skills of 18-22 year old young men and it is not a job I would want to undertake.

            Go Shocks!
            I would DEFINITELY take on that task...and be 3.3 mil richer the following year when I got fired.
            Livin the dream

            Comment


            • ShockTalk
              ShockTalk commented
              Editing a comment
              Good point.

          • I think AZ was spot on with his analysis. We only have one proven 3 point shooter returning on the whole team, and 3 guards that have proven they are not good shooters. 2 of the 3 are not good defenders. Unfortunately we have AAC Q4 guards right now. We have to get better guards to compete in this conference.

            Im also concerned about the 4 position. I know there are a lot of Markus detractors on here, but his backup only plays about 5 minutes per game and there is a reason for that, he’s just not an AAC caliber player.

            We we also have four centers which is not a luxury I’m sure we can afford when we are so deficient at 3 point shooting. I like them all and maybe Poor Bear can become a 4. If not, we probably need to trade a center for another outside shooter.

            If if we stand pat with what we have now and the new players coming in, we’re a sixth place team again next year. Fortunately HCGM knows this and continues to recruit hard for the coming year. He’s worked too hard to accept 6th place finishes every year.

            Comment


            • ShockTalk
              ShockTalk commented
              Editing a comment
              Since Dexter Dennis has pretty much nailed down the 3 spot, Teddy Buckets Allen will most likely play the 4. Freshman Gordon is a 4 and Poor Bear definitely has the skills to play the 4 if needed.
              As for our centers, one will graduate next year, another is on the mend with his shoulder and basically will start the year much as if he were a freshman give the time he has and will miss. Add to this that PB can help shore up the 4 spot behind Allen and your depth has pretty much disappeared. I'm hoping Udeze will redshirt next year. He could probably use it to get in better shape, start the following year much more prepared, and dropped himself out of the this year's large class.
              Saying the 3 guards are NOT good shooters is basing it on a freshman year...most freshmen improve as they get more use to D-I ball. Also, all three were good shooters in high school or JUCO, so the ability is there. I said this earlier, but I feel that recruiting another guard is just as likely to have a current guard signee feel he's being recruited over than intimidating a current guard that has the advantage of a year under Marshall.
              The good thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores. Much more knowledgeable with the system, stronger, and have built a chemistry with their teammates. They know their opponents and what it means to play at this level.
              If your not sure what your going to get, be careful for what you wish for with another group of freshmen.

            • B1ShockFan
              B1ShockFan commented
              Editing a comment
              I am not sure shooters are our problem, WE NEED A POINT GUARD!!!! that can run the the team, get the ball to others when they get open.

          • I think AZ and MadDog have it right.

            Let me start with the recruitment of Sherfield. If we sign him, we have to lose a guard. Burton is the starting PG and Torres is the best passer and has the best court vision on the roster. It's incredibly unlikely that a commit would ask out of an LOI because we added a 4* guard.

            I don't know how half the people out here think ES was a great shooter in HS. He was a volume shooter, but wasn't a great shooter. His shooting numbers this year are in the 32% range on all shots and 26% from 3. Watch how the better teams play against him when he's defending. They drive on him non-stop. ES hasn't shown that he can be an adequate defender against the top end of the AAC. He's just not quick enough. He's a hard worker, a "hustle" player, and busts his butt, but he has some physical limitations on D and his shot is off. Maybe he got the "yips" playing D1, but putting a 30% shooter who struggles to guard quicker players isn't going to cut it in this league. ES would absolutely destroy the MVC, but that's not the scale we can judge by any more. Love his motor and his work ethic, but that may not be enough.

            Moving on to front court players

            Udeze taking a shirt would be great. He was showing a lot of potential before he got hurt, but he's going to miss almost a year of competitive ball, miss almost a year of upper-body strength training. Miss an entire summer of workouts, pickup games, shooting, and drills A year off would go a long ways toward getting rid of the negative effects of all that.

            Poor Bear seems to be in the Durley mold. Considering some of the times he was apparently past the end of the bench, that's usually a sign that he wasn't busting butt in practice or had done something else to cause Marshall to not play him. He's got some potential and could have great upside, but he might not be as comfortable here as he might think he could be somewhere else.

            Rod Brown is the most obvious spot for an upgrade, but there's not a lot of recruiting going on for a PF. Brown is undersized at PF, and shows no potential for being a stretch 4, but he's the only returning player with experience at PF. Teddy becomes eligible and Gordon comes in, so going with no exp on this squad at the position might be the way to go.

            Considering potential lack of fit, lack of PT, possible chemistry issues, and players who may be more comfortable "closer to home", I think Brown, Chandler, and Stevenson are the most likely transfers. That's not saying I want to see them leave, but those appear to be the most likely and I think it's possible it could be as much their decision as it would be Marshall's decision.

            We don't need 4 centers or 3 PF's. Signing a guard and keeping all the existing perimeter players isn't out of the question.
            The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
            We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

            Comment


            • AndShock
              AndShock commented
              Editing a comment
              I’m not sure why “best passer” makes a roster spot seem likely when we have a beast of a sophomore PG who could play 35 minutes next year and 3 players coming in who can play the point. There might be times at the beginning of next year where a serviceable PG would be helpful but I could easily see him getting zero PT late in the year. ES potentially has multiple years to work on shooting, ball handling and defending. As for ES’s biggest knock being his defense, it’s not like RT is locking anyone down.

          • Since 1/30 - ES has been 33% from three. I don't disagree with most of what you said - but I think he is closer to the 33% mark than the 26% you have listed here.

            That is all I really wanted to point out.

            Originally posted by Aargh View Post
            I think AZ and MadDog have it right.

            Let me start with the recruitment of Sherfield. If we sign him, we have to lose a guard. Burton is the starting PG and Torres is the best passer and has the best court vision on the roster. It's incredibly unlikely that a commit would ask out of an LOI because we added a 4* guard.

            I don't know how half the people out here think ES was a great shooter in HS. He was a volume shooter, but wasn't a great shooter. His shooting numbers this year are in the 32% range on all shots and 26% from 3. Watch how the better teams play against him when he's defending. They drive on him non-stop. ES hasn't shown that he can be an adequate defender against the top end of the AAC. He's just not quick enough. He's a hard worker, a "hustle" player, and busts his butt, but he has some physical limitations on D and his shot is off. Maybe he got the "yips" playing D1, but putting a 30% shooter who struggles to guard quicker players isn't going to cut it in this league. ES would absolutely destroy the MVC, but that's not the scale we can judge by any more. Love his motor and his work ethic, but that may not be enough.

            Moving on to front court players

            Udeze taking a shirt would be great. He was showing a lot of potential before he got hurt, but he's going to miss almost a year of competitive ball, miss almost a year of upper-body strength training. Miss an entire summer of workouts, pickup games, shooting, and drills A year off would go a long ways toward getting rid of the negative effects of all that.

            Poor Bear seems to be in the Durley mold. Considering some of the times he was apparently past the end of the bench, that's usually a sign that he wasn't busting butt in practice or had done something else to cause Marshall to not play him. He's got some potential and could have great upside, but he might not be as comfortable here as he might think he could be somewhere else.

            Rod Brown is the most obvious spot for an upgrade, but there's not a lot of recruiting going on for a PF. Brown is undersized at PF, and shows no potential for being a stretch 4, but he's the only returning player with experience at PF. Teddy becomes eligible and Gordon comes in, so going with no exp on this squad at the position might be the way to go.

            Considering potential lack of fit, lack of PT, possible chemistry issues, and players who may be more comfortable "closer to home", I think Brown, Chandler, and Stevenson are the most likely transfers. That's not saying I want to see them leave, but those appear to be the most likely and I think it's possible it could be as much their decision as it would be Marshall's decision.

            We don't need 4 centers or 3 PF's. Signing a guard and keeping all the existing perimeter players isn't out of the question.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ShockerExpress View Post
              Since 1/30 - ES has been 33% from three. I don't disagree with most of what you said - but I think he is closer to the 33% mark than the 26% you have listed here.

              That is all I really wanted to point out.


              This makes no senses. Stevenson is a true Freshman meaning his body and game is still developing. Torres is 23, he’s not getting any better.

              Comment


              • pie n eye
                pie n eye commented
                Editing a comment
                Look no further than Joe Ragland. He came in with the reputation of a shooter and he barely shot 30% his junior year and didn’t get better the next year.

                Ricky wasn’t sold as a sharp shooter but he did shoot a good % at Juco level. If Ragland couldn’t make it happen, neither will Stevenson or Richard Torres (he prefers Richard in his advanced age).

              • WstateU
                WstateU commented
                Editing a comment

              • WSUwatcher
                WSUwatcher commented
                Editing a comment
                Pie, either my meter has malfunctioned or there's another Joe Ragland I missed during his WSU career. The one I remember shot 31% from three as a junior and 50%+ (from three!) as a senior and as a volume shooter, averaging almost four attempts in just 27 mpg). Who are you referring to?

            • I like Burton, but watching Daniel from Tulane was very glaring how we lack a penetrating point guard. Hopefully one of our incoming freshmen can add that dimension.

              Comment


              • Bluzrover
                Bluzrover commented
                Editing a comment
                I've long pined for a guard who could penetrate and draw defenders. I'm reminded of being extremely frustrated at the Scott Trade Center, I believe in 2016, when Wes Washpun took the ball to the hoop just about everytime they came down the court. Everyone in the arena knew he was going to do it but we just refused to try and stop him and those bastards put an end to our conference tournament championship hopes and ruined my only trip to St. Louis for Arch Madness. I think Burton is capable, he just needs to learn how to share the ball once he's surrounded by the trees under the basket instead of forcing the shot.

            • Our record since this was posted: 9-3

              Yeah, let's post more threads about how we are worried for the future.
              Last edited by FadedCrown; 1 week ago.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Aargh View Post

                I don't know how half the people out here think ES was a great shooter in HS. He was a volume shooter, but wasn't a great shooter. His shooting numbers this year are in the 32% range on all shots and 26% from 3. Watch how the better teams play against him when he's defending. They drive on him non-stop. ES hasn't shown that he can be an adequate defender against the top end of the AAC. He's just not quick enough. He's a hard worker, a "hustle" player, and busts his butt, but he has some physical limitations on D and his shot is off. Maybe he got the "yips" playing D1, but putting a 30% shooter who struggles to guard quicker players isn't going to cut it in this league. ES would absolutely destroy the MVC, but that's not the scale we can judge by any more. Love his motor and his work ethic, but that may not be enough.

                Sounds like this board when it was talking about Evan Wessel throughout his career. Too slow, defensive liability, can't shoot consistently. Yet there is something about winning, though. ES has the second highest +/- on the team and third highest +/1 per 40 minutes.

                For conference games only, he is fourth in +/- and 3rd in +/- per 40 minutes.

                "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
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                Comment


                • WstateU
                  WstateU commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Bingo Bango Bongo!
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