Future?

[asiseeit]

I spent well over half the season defending and promoting AM and now I am going to defend and promote ES.
Yes, he occasionally gets beat on the drive but there are darn few players that don't. I have watched a lot of
basketball this season and players get beat all the time. Now, he has a nose for the ball, deflects passes,
makes steals, and rebounds better than most. As for his shooting myself and numerous others have
pointed out that his fundamentals are sound. Players at all levels have bad stretches and even years only to
bounce back. Mark my words those of you that think he can't shoot will be eating those words next year. I
feel pretty confident he will shoot 33-37% from the perimeter next season. He is NOT a .28 three point
shooter just as RT isn't as bad as his stats show. As for our centers we we should keep ALL of them as all
have shown great potential but it would be nice if IPBC could play the four also.

[wusphlash]

I think Gregg sees a lot of himself in Erik. I don't see Erik going anywhere.

I see Isaiah getting a lot of time at the 4 next year.

I think if the team can simply get better at feeding the post other teams will worry more about defending our bigs than we worry about their small 5's.

I also think, with Teddy's inside game, our bigs could make a killing on the offensive boards.

I think counting on our incoming freshmen to make an immediate impact is a dangerous proposition.

[ShockTalk]

"I think counting on our incoming freshmen to make an immediate impact is a dangerous proposition."

And too many did this last year.

[DUShock]

I want to thank the forum participants for the quality and civility of the discussion. By in large, this has been an insightful and respectful discussion.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen!

And now, the one thing we can all agree upon...

Go Shocks!

[im4wsu]

We've had the "discussion" in several threads about "with seniors" and "without seniors." I
I eliminated all lineups with Herrs, Bush, Farakhan, Busse (DNP) and Moore (transferred) which eliminated 41.57 minutes played.
The table shows the number of lineups, net +/- for both all games and conference-only games. I'll leave you to draw whatever conslusions you come to.

nomarkis.png

[B1ShockFan]

Very interesting

[Aargh]

Yikes! If I read that right, Fever has been right all year.

[WSUwatcher]

Thanks, im4. Very interesting indeed, and both telling and eye-opening. I'm glad Samajae hit the two buzzer beaters, and I wish him well on and off the court and throughout his life, but I'm already looking forward to a different backcourt next season.

[Slalomshocker]

Everything will be a lot different next year. The first half of this year was a combination of GGG stating preseason "we're going to have to ride the seniors" and the seniors taking that to heart. When this team plays together, and no one individual tries to do more than necessary, they are pretty dang good. But as soon as guys quit moving off the ball, or guys start forcing shots....its not good. There are 2 guys that have really sticky hands, they will be departing. Before we worry about who can/can't shoot, pass, defend, etc. Lets see what this collection of players can do playing together, as a unit, trying to find the best shot in the offense. And give them a year to get physically up to speed with D1 ball. You guys want to judge ES & JB on how they play against: Alston(sr), Rose(jr), Cumberland (jr), Jalen Adams(sr), Corey Davis (sr), Martin(sr)... notice anything there? all of those guys are older, physically mature, seasoned vets. Our guys are 18 years old. Give them time. Sorry, I don't have any defense for Torres... like the guy, great vision and passing....that's where it ends for me.

The 'we need a guy that can drive to the rim' has less to do with the players and more to do with the offense put in place by coach. In my opinion anyways.

[Kashman]

I would also add Brooks, Jarreau, McMurray, Mike, Collins and Whitt. Compare all of them to last years drafted AAC guards. Shamet, Evans and Milton. Our Freshman have basically been guarding NBA talent (or very close to) through the entire conference schedule. Next year and beyond, other AAC teams are going to be on their fan boards complaining that their guards can't hang with ours.

[top20shock]

It’s not personal with Torres. He’s the recruiting result of losing Shamet and Marshall being honorable and letting Lomax go at the last minute.
Next years team will come together completely different than this years team. Each player should be evaluated after the season is over as usual.

[pinstripers]

you make it sound as if Marshall coulda kept Lomax here

[IndianaShocker]

Lomax doesn't make any difference on this team. If he was here, I suspect many would be disappointed at this point.

[WSUwatcher]

Well, Hoosier, I think it's a safe bet that anyone who disliked Torres's 3-40 shooting from three this season would also have been unhappy with Lomax's 2-25 performance beyond the arc. That second three Lomax finally hit did edge out Rickey 8% to 7.5%, but the best thing he did was from distance all year was stop shooting, and luckily he had some guys with him who could -- and did -- take it to the rack with abandon so that no one noticed. In terms of overall accuracy, you could practically throw a blanket over the two of them: Lomax .357 thanks in part to his reduction in three point volume; Torres .348.

[Kel Varnsen]

We've had the "discussion" in several threads about "with seniors" and "without seniors." I
I eliminated all lineups with Herrs, Bush, Farakhan, Busse (DNP) and Moore (transferred) which eliminated 41.57 minutes played.
The table shows the number of lineups, net +/- for both all games and conference-only games. I'll leave you to draw whatever conslusions you come to.

nomarkis.png

Interesting. I would say SHJ has probably had his biggest weakness on the defensive side of the ball, mainly due to his (lack of) size and strength. He's barely 6' and is not too strong; it's just not how he's built. Consider these things:

SHJ's turnover percentage is 10.4%, second lowest on the team, only behind Markis at 9.2%.

His eFG% is 43.9%, and the only other guard (is Dennis technically a guard?) above him in that category is Dexter Dennis at 48.7%. Every other guard is below SHJ in that category, and his usage rate is higher than all of the other guards.

His Offensive Box Plus Minus, a pace-adjusted statistic, is second on the team only to Markis. His Defensive BPM is lowest on the team among rotation players.

Shocker fans can dog SHJ all they want I guess, but his shot selection isn't the problem. Him shooting more seems to be the preferred course of action over other players, specifically guards, shooting the ball.

His defense is a problem simply because he's short and guarding players who are much taller and more physical than he is.

Source is the "Advanced" section found here: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...tate/2019.html

[AndShock]

I'm curious if SHJ's bad defensive numbers are due to bad defense or the other team scoring every time SHJ chucks up an atomic bomb with 28 seconds on the shot clock.

[ShockerFever]

AndShock with the burn.

[Kel Varnsen]

For it to “burn,” one of you would have to support that claim with evidence that those instances are a trend and not just in your head. I have cited my evidence. Please feel free to do the same.

[im4wsu]

Here are two-man combinations:

twoman-1.png
twoman-2.png
twoman-3.png

[im4wsu]

Two-man continued

twoman-4.png
twoman-5.png
twoman-6.png

[IndianaShocker]

So MM, DD, AM had their best conference +/- with Ricky Torres on the court. He needs to play more, but Etch is the biggest difference maker and his numbers aren't great with Ricky.

[ShockTalk]

One can really play some war games with those stats.

[WSUwatcher]

Those are interesting totals, im4 -- although I'm not sure what's distinctive about two man combos vs. any other -- and they do tend to favor the idea that the score moved in the right direction with Erik in the game more than it did for several other players. That can cover a multitude of other statistical sins.

[wufan]

Jamarius drives to the basket a respectable amount. He makes a reasonable number of shots. The ones he misses are usually highlight real blocks for the opposition. A little seasoning will make him a great penetrator.

[TheShocktocles]

All I know is that we do not need a freshmen running the point guard for this team next year. If RT was to leave and JB got hurt this team would suffer. Like wise if JB left and RT got hurt we would have the same problem. There is a BIG difference between high school and Div. 1 college basketball. As many of our freshmen and juco players have learned this year. Running the point guard position in college should not be an experiment.

Arguably the best point guard in WSU history Fred Vanvleet also needed significant time to adjust but was mentored by bad ass Malcolm Armstead ,a 5th year SR. In my opinion we need both JB and RT for next year. And the idea that JB should play 35 minutes at point guard next year is ludicrous. The shocks have signed one true point guard in Noah Fernandez. We need our experience players to mentor Fernandez the way Fred was mentored. Go shocks.

[Aargh]

^^^This. We've got a 4* SG, a PG, and are heavily recruiting another 4* SG for next year. Of there's an "odd man out" it would seem likely to be a SG, not a PG.

[AZ Shocker]

Too bad ES doesn't have great handles. If he did...I'd like him as a back-up Point Guard to Burton next season while mentoring Fernandez.

[pie n eye]

I think Stevenson’s handles are fine. His decision making at times...

[wufan]

Agreed. Erik has very good handles as a 2, and decent handles if he were a 1. Decision making is a little rough.

[TheShocktocles]

We seem to be recruiting SG and SF wing type players. Those types of players usually can play the 2 position or the 3 position . Apparently Coach feels we need to improve in that area. I gave up a long time ago in trying to figure out on who is leaving and who is staying. Last season turnover was the last straw for me. Thus I will just wait to see what happens.

[top20shock]

All I know is that we do not need a freshmen running the point guard for this team next year. If RT was to leave and JB got hurt this team would suffer. Like wise if JB left and RT got hurt we would have the same problem. There is a BIG difference between high school and Div. 1 college basketball. As many of our freshmen and juco players have learned this year. Running the point guard position in college should not be an experiment.

Arguably the best point guard in WSU history Fred Vanvleet also needed significant time to adjust but was mentored by bad ass Malcolm Armstead ,a 5th year SR. In my opinion we need both JB and RT for next year. And the idea that JB should play 35 minutes at point guard next year is ludicrous. The shocks have signed one true point guard in Noah Fernandez. We need our experience players to mentor Fernandez the way Fred was mentored. Go shocks.

JB is the starting PG. Unlikely anything happens to him. Some of you guys have the yips because of Reaves leaving.
The two guys coming in next year will have to learn and they need court time IMO. For what its worth on paper Etienne is the highest rated recruit ever under Marshall. We will see. Adding a scoring two Guard is a no brainer.

[Shockm]

It’s impossible to predict who may be leaving. IMO, we are only recruiting talent that may increase our talent pool, especially players who have higher ceilings to move us forward in the American Conference, whose talent level seems to be rising also. This team would already be leading the Valley and likely headed toward another NCAA tourney berth. If we wish to continue to be relevant nationally, we need to continue to improve our talent level. We can’t afford to continue waiting on players such as Shaq to wait until they are Jrs. and Seniors to be ready to play. We need to have 10-12 players ready to compete from Day 1. This year we probably have 5-6 that are USUALLY ready (and maybe not that many). In other words, we don’t have very many consistent players although they have improved during the year to be fairly consistent defensively.

I doubt we sign more than one or two, and I have a couple of opinions on which players are least ready, who is less consistent, while I’m not sure who may be homesick, etc. But I have a strong feeling, we are not ready to compete for a NC yet, and that should be our goal.