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**shoxlax** · February 23, 2018, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by CBB_Fan View Post

I don't think we know everything, or close to it. This is just one agency over a relatively small number of years. But from what we do know, Fred's $1000-3000 his senior year is significantly different from the tens of the thousands of dollars given to recruits before the picked a college. In fact, it is close to the least significant value we've seen for the smallest amount of eligibility. That said, we probably should expect that time to be vacated.

And I would guess this is just the tip of the iceberg. It has been common knowledge that AAU in general is dirty at the top levels, and this barely delved into that. I wouldn't be surprised that we learn quite a bit more, about ourselves and others.

Bottom line, I'm disappointed but not extremely so. It barely matters in the end; it did not impact any decision Fred made while in college. He did not choose to come here for money, he did not choose to stay or leave for money. Many other universities are dealing with far worse. I'll wait till we hear further info and see punishments before my opinion solidifies.

You are starting to grow on me....

**rjl** · February 23, 2018, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by ShauXTyme View Post

This, to me, is disappointing. It's almost as if Fred is saying "screw the rules" and he's basically throwing coach under the bus at the same time. Just my take.

To play devil's advocate, a bunch of people saying "screw the rules" is what often drives change. Here, Fred was probably thinking "F the NCAA" when he took the money, and he's still thinking it now. When you have a situation where many of the best in college basketball have done the same thing, the NCAA is going to have to take a long, hard look at the rules. There is absolutely no way that reality is ever going to change, so is the NCAA going to continue the charade?

**Cdizzle** · February 23, 2018, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by rjl View Post

To play devil's advocate, a bunch of people saying "screw the rules" is what often drives change. Here, Fred was probably thinking "F the NCAA" when he took the money, and he's still thinking it now. When you have a situation where many of the best in college basketball have done the same thing, the NCAA is going to have to take a long, hard look at the rules. There is absolutely no way that reality is ever going to change, so is the NCAA going to continue the charade?

Sometimes the people driving change don't know what they're doing, nor would they like what things actually become.

Sometimes people aren't 'driving change,' they are just working in their own self-interest.

If you object to, and would like to "screw" the NCAA rules, fine. You have an avenue to do that without negatively impacting your own teammates, coaches, fans, universities, or the said parties of other institutions.

**shox2k2** · February 23, 2018, 01:06 PM

The players know the rules when they sign up. They live way better than a normal college student. They are not victims. The money made by the NCAA goes back to the schools and the smaller sports. So which sports do we lose because basketball and football players want more. I believe his senior year fvv was getting the full cost of attendance scholarship which put some extra cash in his pocket already. Probably that ncca appearance will be wiped out. And no need to worry about getting ron and Fred together for a jersey retirement. There will be only one jersey retired now.

**Kung Wu** · February 23, 2018, 01:06 PM

Some random thoughts and questions ...

We all know the NCAA will use the information that the FBI is digging up to nail programs to the cross. But who is the FBI going to burn, and for what? Vacated wins is one thing, but getting thrown in the clink is another. Do the agents get burned for racketeering? The apparel companies? Some universities that were complicit? Some university employees? Is prison a possibility for anyone here? Is the NCAA itself complicit and being scrutinized? Offering and accepting a private loan is not a crime. It's an NCAA violation. What exactly is the FBI pursuing that's criminal?

**shock** · February 23, 2018, 01:08 PM

I wonder if HCGM knew before the news broke. If not, what an awkward conversation.

“Sorry coach, they will probably vacate some of your wins and this will tarnish your reputation, but it won’t effect me at all.”

**Shoxfan11** · February 23, 2018, 01:08 PM

It's pretty easy to say "screw the rules" when you're not the one being punished for breaking those rules.

**wheathead** · February 23, 2018, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by ShockerPhi View Post

No, he certainly is at fault here too. I'm sure he and others like him knew. I guess I'm a little mad at him, but not as much as I'd be if he took a lot more or if our program was involved.

P.S. My main point I guess is I really hate the corrupt organizations involved that create this kind of situation. The NCAA has failed year after year to try and stop this. I'd argue they really don't care, especially when it comes to the money makers.

Jay Bilas is probably having a field day today!

**rjl** · February 23, 2018, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Cdizzle View Post

If you object to, and would like to "screw" the NCAA rules, fine. You have an avenue to do that without negatively impacting your own teammates, coaches, fans, universities, or the said parties of other institutions.

Explain what those avenues are.

I'm thinking a lot of people on here don't know what being truly poor is like. I don't have a clue, and I worked 30 hours a week at a grocery store to put myself through undergrad. At least I had the luxury of doing something in exchange for money when I was in school.

I'm not saying what Fred or any of these people did was right, but I am saying that I get it, and I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and pretending I'm above it all.

Here's what NCAA president Mark Emmert said:

“These allegations, if true, point to systematic failures that must be fixed and fixed now if we want college sports in America. Simply put, people who engage in this kind of behavior have no place in college sports. They are an affront to all those who play by the rules. With these latest allegations, it's clear this work is more important now than ever. The Board and I are completely committed to making transformational changes to the game and ensuring all involved in college basketball do so with integrity. We also will continue to cooperate with the efforts of federal prosecutors to identify and punish the unscrupulous parties seeking to exploit the system through criminal acts.”

So here's Mark Emmert talking about unscrupulous people who make money off of these kids. Mark Emmert makes $1,7 million per year. What does he do to generate that money?

**Cdizzle** · February 23, 2018, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by rjl View Post

Explain what those avenues are.

Give up amateur status and take what the market will pay you for your skills, and operate within the rules of that market.

Sort of like what the rest of the world does.

People leading organizations get rich based on the work of people within the organization ALL. THE. TIME.

Welcome to reality. Not everyone is a victim.

**Shock Top** · February 23, 2018, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Shoxfan11 View Post

It's pretty easy to say "screw the rules" when you're not the one being punished for breaking those rules.

Agreed. While the players may believe they aren’t getting all they deserve, they also aren’t the ones who suffer the majorty of the punishment based off their actions. (Unless you have an individual award like a Heisman)

Maybe there can be a solution.

What if they gave students more stipend, like the $100 grocery card and other increased benefits. However, in exchanged for increased benefits, schools can now sue former players for loses of revenue for vacated wins, probation, and/or loss of scholarship. (If proved school had no involvement)

That way, player get more of what they want, but they are now they are accountable for their own actions too.

**shocker43** · February 23, 2018, 01:28 PM

People mad at Fred for not issuing a statement yet need to chill. I'm sure he's been told to not say anything publicly yet, if at all, by his agent/lawyer/whatever. WSU hasn't even made a statement about it yet.

**tw805** · February 23, 2018, 01:32 PM

No matter how this turns out for WSU, I will at least sleep soundly at night wrapped in the comfort of knowing that our Federal Bureau of Investigation is devoting its resources to the protection of the virgin-like purity of the NCAA's "non-profit" and "amateur" statuses. There is simply no greater threat to the security and integrity of this nation than token payments and loans given to amateur athletes. A paragon of virtue like the NCAA cannot be expected to devote the scant and precious resources generated from its ten-figure television contract to policing itself. That's what we pay the government for.

**wheathead** · February 23, 2018, 01:32 PM

Didn't good ol' Roy Williams just say a week ago that he was confident NC wouldn't have any problem with all this stuff?

**ShockCrazy** · February 23, 2018, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by tw805 View Post

No matter how this turns out for WSU, I will at least sleep soundly at night wrapped in the comfort of knowing that our Federal Bureau of Investigation is devoting its resources to the protection of the virgin-like purity of the NCAA's "non-profit" and "amateur" statuses. There is simply no greater threat to the security and integrity of this nation than token payments and loans given to amateur athletes. A paragon of virtue like the NCAA cannot be expected to devote the scant and precious resources generated from its ten-figure television contract to policing itself. That's what we pay the government for.

You do know the FBI isn't involved in the amateurism correct? You do realize they are investigating due to fraud right? They are involved because universities are committing fraud by receiving aid in the form of Pell Grants that they know students aren't qualified for because they are either paying players or helping players get paid from shoe companies. FBI doesn't give a rats ass about amateurism. They do care that money is being taken from qualified applicants to give to those that aren't.

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