Fire Todd Butler

[Kel Varnsen]

Son, we live in a world that has plates, and those plates have to be guarded by men with baseballs. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Brownlee? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Molina, and you curse the Shockers. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Molina's injury, while tragic, probably saved runs; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves runs.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that mound -- you need me on that mound.

We use words like "brushback," "chin music," "beanball." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very baseball that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a baseball and stand on the mound. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

[pinstripers]

Ah the old "I was just following orders" dodge. I think some Germans tried that defense at Nuremburg. How did that work out for them?

I don't care what the pitching coach may or may not have told him to do, Christensen is still responsible for his actions.

yeah, exactly the same

[WheatShock]

yeah, exactly the same

Its exactly the same principle.

Now can we get off this tangent and get back to how we can get rid of the current baseball coach? I really have no great desire to debate a nearly two decade old incident.

[BOBB]

So are you implying that this event was more of a hex that was placed on WSU baseball after the fact or that it overall affected recruiting? Cause it seems to be one of those things that's buried and rarely gets dug up by the media..

It hurt recruiting and put a taint on the program. Gene's sojourn to OU cemented the trajectory.

Fire Todd Butler, bring in a successful coach that believes in this program's potential, and find some way, if possible, to make peace with the Gene faction of would be supporters.

The fan base is also going to have to accept that five consecutive CWS is not in the cards in today's environment, though I would venture the last 15 years have disabused them of that notion.

[CharlieHog]

I think it probably seems like the "incident" had more of an impact than it really did, because it coincided with a general surge in college baseball. Schools started spending more, there was more college baseball on TV, the internet allowed fans to follow the team easier, and in 1999 baseball went to the regional format which allowed 16 schools to host instead of 8.

In 1999 the top 5 schools in attendance averaged 7155 (LSU) and then 4847, 4727, 4341, 4204. Wichita State was 12th with 2541. Attendance really started going up after that until now what you really see is a doubling at the top, where you have to be over 8,000 to crack the top 4. Wichita State averaged 2,241 in 2016, not so different than 1999, but that was only good enough for 32nd.


2016 attendance source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...017/attend.pdf

1999 attendance: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...attendance.pdf

[SHOCKvalue]

Oh muh gah on this Christensen rehash.

On another note, nice to see you CharlieHog; can you take Butler back with you as you leave. Like pretty please with cherries on top?

[ShockTalk]

In a game against Evansville he intentionally hit the lead off batter in the head with a warm up pitch while the guy was still on deck.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but never was this incident about "intentionally" hitting Molina. Did he thrown a message, Yes. Should he have done it , No. That was Gene's job to get Molina back in the On Deck circle.

[ShockTalk]

Oh muh gah on this Christensen rehash.

On another note, nice to see you CharlieHog; can you take Butler back with you as you leave. Like pretty please with cherries on top?

Agree. On all three counts. But, I'm not going to allow misinformation to be spouted about to others that didn't know about the incident.

[SB Shock]

I understand that Molina was not in the on deck circle. You still don't throw at a guys head in that situation, you ask the umpire to make him get back in the circle where he's supposed to be.

Your first post said he was - which was wrong.

I agree we you on what should have happened. Christensen had nothing to gain by doing what he did. Even if he had not hit him, he was going to be ejected from the game. That was probably Brownlee goal anyway by having Molina go up there. The MVC kept it really quiet, a week or two later there was another similar incident ISUB and Evansville.

[WuShock16]

That is interesting to see the attendance numbers comparison. That almost gives credence to the adage that the "good old days" weren't always so good. From a competitive standpoint, yes, the baseball Shockers were great...but the way people talk, you'd think there were packed houses all the time. Now, certainly, for marquee regular season games, I remember great crowds...but the early season game against weak teams didn't bring that.

Someone mentioned that a new coach and a reconciliation with Gene could allow for a splendid opening day ceremony to name the facility in honor of Gene in front of a sellout crowd. Outside of hosting a regional/super regional again, I don't foresee Eck being FULL again.

[WheatShock]

In a game against Evansville he intentionally hit the lead off batter in the head with a warm up pitch while the guy was still on deck.

I understand that Molina was not in the on deck circle. You still don't throw at a guys head in that situation, you ask the umpire to make him get back in the circle where he's supposed to be.

Your first post said he was - which was wrong.

I agree we you on what should have happened. Christensen had nothing to gain by doing what he did. Even if he had not hit him, he was going to be ejected from the game. That was probably Brownlee goal anyway by having Molina go up there. The MVC kept it really quiet, a week or two later there was another similar incident ISUB and Evansville.

My first post said he was still on deck ie; not up to bat yet. He was not in the on deck circle or anywhere near it as we all know. I suppose I should have made that clear in my original post as it was directed at a poster who had no knowledge of the incident.

Both sides have to take some blame IMO. Evansville should not have antagonized Christensen and or Kemnitz. WSU should have simply asked the umpire to make Molina get back in the box in accordance with the rules instead of throwing at him.

Anyway, the past is the past and please take Butler back with you @CharlieHog:

[SB Shock]

I think it probably seems like the "incident" had more of an impact than it really did, because it coincided with a general surge in college baseball. Schools started spending more, there was more college baseball on TV, the internet allowed fans to follow the team easier, and in 1999 baseball went to the regional format which allowed 16 schools to host instead of 8.

In 1999 the top 5 schools in attendance averaged 7155 (LSU) and then 4847, 4727, 4341, 4204. Wichita State was 12th with 2541. Attendance really started going up after that until now what you really see is a doubling at the top, where you have to be over 8,000 to crack the top 4. Wichita State averaged 2,241 in 2016, not so different than 1999, but that was only good enough for 32nd.


2016 attendance source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...017/attend.pdf

1999 attendance: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseba...attendance.pdf

Couple things went here regarding WSU attendance:

1. Through the 1999 season - WSU reported actual Butts in seats for attendance. The new AD that came in at the end of '99 season changed that for 2000. I believe the explanation was that the NCAA mandate you either report butts in seat or tickets sold, but you couldn't do both. There was not actual bump at WSU of more people watching after the 1999, it was just being reported differently.

2. Since WSU is in a cold climate - WSU early attendance (butts in seat) is much less than when it warms up. WSU would put 4,000 to close to 7,000 butts in seats depending on opponent once the weather moderated (when WSU was a good program).

[WheatShock]

Since WSU is in a cold climate - WSU early attendance (butts in seat) is much less than when it warms up. WSU would put 4,000 to close to 7,000 butts in seats once the weather moderated (when WSU was a good program).

Very true. My Dad took me to lots of Shocker games when I was growing up in the 90's but we almost never went early in the year unless it was an unseasonably warm day.

[CharlieHog]

Couple things went here regarding WSU attendance:

1. Through the 1999 season - WSU reported actual Butts in seats for attendance. The new AD that came in at the end of '99 season changed that for 2000. I believe the explanation was that the NCAA mandate you either report butts in seat or tickets sold, but you couldn't do both. There was not actual bump at WSU of more people watching after the 1999, it was just being reported differently.

2. Since WSU is in a cold climate - WSU early attendance (butts in seat) is much less than when it warms up. WSU would put 4,000 to close to 7,000 butts in seats depending on opponent once the weather moderated (when WSU was a good program).

I could be wrong but I think that "tickets sold" has always been used for official NCAA attendance numbers. Arkansas used to report actual attendance, too, but so few did that we stopped a few years ago.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I understand that Molina was not in the on deck circle. You still don't throw at a guys head in that situation, you ask the umpire to make him get back in the circle where he's supposed to be.

SB is not defending Christenson's action. He is merely correcting the generalized record that Molina was in the on deck circle.