Fire Todd Butler

[ShockTalk]

I didn't like Butler the moment I saw the assistant he was bringing with him. You'd think that by now the players would at least have the "fake hit by pitch" perfected.

On the subject of Sexton, the contract he made with Butler wasn't his only screw up. The contract he set up with Adams, even AFTER he knew what was going on with the players, was unforgivable. He absolutely enabled the ongoing mistreatment of the players by giving Adams a $500K buyout when the players were leaving faster than they could be brought in.

When it's financially prohibitive to fire an abusing coach, it's not surprising that Bardo wasted little time getting Sexton out of the athletic department, without firing him. That entire episode was more about saving face than anything else, since Adams would have been able to retire on the payout she would have gotten if she were released. So WSU retained a coach who went from first to eighth, 10 games behind the league leader. All because Sexton gave a troubled coach an extension with a ridiculous buyout.

I, too, was surprised at the assistant he chose and have said so before. Still, I held faith that Butler would get it done fADES did OK.

I totally jump ship on ES after the tape of he and the women's team and what he did and didn't do. It was unforgivable.

[shockfan89_]

I agree with most of what SB said except Gene never said he couldn't win at WSU. He said he couldn't do anymore at WSU and since he had won a National Championship and went to the CWS 5 out of 6 years, I think that was a fair statement. He couldn't do more than that and I doubt anybody else will ever sniff that amount of success at WSU. To say he couldn't win at WSU was not only never said, if it was said he proved it wrong by winning another 380 games at WSU over the next 9 seasons for an average of more than 42 wins per year. I sure hope we find another coach that can't win at WSU and soon! :)

[Play Angry]

We have failed in utterly spectacular fashion to be an at-large quality team in each of Gene's last 5 years and Butler's first 3. That is the threshold we need to return to.

Gene was not going to return us to that level, which was painfully obvious to all but the most blindly allegiant. Butler clearly is not going to either. You just have to keep trying until the results match the resources and desired outcome.

On to the next one.

[WSUwatcher]

My recollection is that Don Beggs sought Eric out to replace Jim Schaus. I don't recall Eric actively seeking that position. To the extent that is true then Don Beggs deserves some of the blame for seeking out a person who was really not prepared for many aspects of the AD position.

I believe you're correct, and I agree about President Beggs -- he was a good leader for the university as a whole and a Shocker through and through, but it appears that his faith in Sexton as AD may have been excessive or misplaced.

[shockfan89_]

I remember towards the end of last season Mike Kennedy said all of the naysayers of HCTB would be eating their words at this time next season. Although the season is not quit half over, baring a major turnaround the last half of the season I think things will actually be worse at the end of this year. I know Mike is the ultimate homer and part of his job is to see the good during rough times, but does anyone else think we are giving up too soon?

I can tell from the core group of posters on here, and the lack of fans at the stadium, that any support/hope that was there last season has eroded, or at least gone silent. Is the consensus that the only reason to give HCTB another year is the huge buyout looming over our heads? I have never been a big HCTB guy and I am obviously still butt hurt over the way the transition was handled, but I don't see very many bright spots on the roster and it looks like we could be worse next year when Tewes and Schwanke are gone. I do see potential in some of our young hitters, but their fielding woes, strikeouts, and general lack of baseball IQ concern me enough to almost negate the excitement.

I guess my question is: Three years in does anyone see the talent level increasing? Do you see good players coming into the program and developing into great players or are they traded out the next year for the hope of another good player? Are there guys on the roster you are excited about? Has anyone improved their draft status by coming to WSU? Will anyone other than Tewes and Schwanke be drafted this year? Do you see any underclassmen you think will one day be drafted?

[SB Shock]

Hitting talent level if you judge by stats is pretty much flatlined. It not better or not worse. The pitching has not only on a decline, but is one of the worst pitching staffs in the nation. With the injuries last year you could understand why they were down, but it is incredible how much worse they are this year. Look at Hayes stats from last year to this year - what happened?

Fielding - stats wise is no better or worse, but feels worse. In critical sutuations it always seems to breakdown. There is just nothing that I can find that makes me think the future is bright and it all about to turn around.

[rrshock]

So how many posts will this thread get to before the chord actually gets cut?

I haven't attended a game for quite some time and actually thought about it this winter. Well, needless to say I'm gonna be spending that money on something else now.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Since Mr. Boatright is the interim A.D., does anyone think that he wants to address this matter, before he learns whether he will be the permanent A.D?

Just wondering.

Every time I look at a box score and see those e.r.a. (s), I see zero daylight.

Not that it matters, but what happened to Tinkham?

Here is my test question: How many players on the team are under 6-0 in height?

What a mess.

[ShockerFever]

The IQ of the team reflects the coach and it hasn't been good since Butler came aboard. That is no coincidence.

I guess we've been so used to the Gene teams where that was taken for granted but I've never heard about so many little league mistakes in my life. Thank God I'm not witnessing it in person.

Is it sad to see more Evansville fans attending baseball games than WSU fans attending them?

[asiseeit]

Have not gone back and read all pages on this thread so I might state something that is redundant.
It's just hard to understand with the quality of our playing facility and practice facilities that we can't
recruit talent here. Quality HS/Juco players should not require much hands on coaching. They should
already be very good at what they do when we recruit them and learned most everything they need to
by the time they get here. What that means to me is that something is wrong with the management
of these young guys and team chemistry. I'd like to see us hire a well liked young former player that
would be highly respected by the players. Someone who could bring them together and build team
chemistry. Forget years of coaching experience. Get a young former player the kids LIKE and will play
hard for, practice hard for, and respect. I believe that ship has sailed for HCTB.

[bleed yellow]

We took defense and fundamentals for granted under Gene, but the hitting at WSU has been abysmal ever since Dirks and Gylaspie left. And even with those 2 it felt like we only had to bats while the rest were just along for the ride.

[small tyme baller]

We took defense and fundamentals for granted under Gene, but the hitting at WSU has been abysmal ever since Dirks and Gylaspie left. And even with those 2 it felt like we only had to bats while the rest were just along for the ride.

Yes to your first sentence & uhhhh what!?!? To your second sentence. That line up had some quality hitters(& ball players) that weren't just along for the ride.

[asiseeit]

Brown, Sublette, Schemerhorn all pretty good sticks

[ShockTalk]

We took defense and fundamentals for granted under Gene, but the hitting at WSU has been abysmal ever since Dirks and Gylaspie left. And even with those 2 it felt like we only had to bats while the rest were just along for the ride.

Yes to your first sentence & uhhhh what!?!? To your second sentence. That line up had some quality hitters(& ball players) that weren't just along for the ride.

Brown, Sublette, Schemerhorn all pretty good sticks

Conor and Andy's last year in 2008 still had a number of other good hitters and seniors. It was one of the best hitting teams in the last 15 or so years. The following year the wheels fell off when the team's batting average dropped around 40 points.

[1972Shocker]

I agree with @shockfan89 that things actually look bleaker with Schwanke gone next year. I don't expect Tewes back but he hasn't been here the past two year's anyway so kind of hard to miss what you haven't had. I don't think it makes much difference on how our young hitters develop if we continue to pitch the way we have and I see very little to hang my hat on.

I was actually more patient then the average fan in giving HCTB somewhat of a pass his 1st two years but I did expect that we would and should be seeing noticeable improvement in year 3. That has not happened. In fact, we seem to be digressing.

Now I fear we are looking at a self-fulfilling death spiral where recruiting is hurt by our results, our results are hurt by our diminished recruiting, which hurts our results, which hurts our recruiting, etc. etc.

The buyout we are facing is a big hurdle and is absolutely the only reason not to make a change. We are faced with two competing conundrums: 1. Can we afford to make a change? vs 2. Can we afford not to make a change?

As @Ricardo del Rio points out that is a headache an interim A.D. may not want to or perhaps should not deal with. If and when a change is made no more than the first 3 years of the contract should be guaranteed.