Fire Todd Butler

[shockfan89_]

Maybe, the story I heard was you have coached you last game at WSU. Resign effective immediately or be terminated. Either way, your last paragraph is what matters now.

[Play Angry]

It's almost like it wasn't totally foreseeable with the lack of contract extensions in the immediately preceding 3 years or the nosedive in financials, attendance, and performance over the preceding 5 years, not to mention the off-field fiascos. The fact that we've sucked hard since then doesn't re-write the facts as they stood at that moment, nor does fADES' incompetence in choosing the successor and structuring HCTB's contract.

As much as I enjoy re-hashing this, there were like 6 of us (seriously, I would be shocked if you could find more than 10) who made a single post in the baseball forum between 2010 and 2013 before the firing rumors heated up. Gene's supporters had their chance to save him but they did not think attending games or donating money (and encouraging their friends to do so) was an important part of that equation, and the smattering of internet bitching was insufficient to buy him more time. @shox1989, @shocker3 and @Veritas were the steadfast holdouts in those days who never wavered in their support of Gene. Nobody else, and I mean nobody else, gave even occasional indication on here in the final years that they were remotely interested in the baseball program's continued employment of Gene. When your salary is in the top 5% of coaches in your particular sport for a half-decade+ and your performance is in the top 30-40% for that same period, them's the breaks, notwithstanding the shenanigans not specifically related to performance.

I am excited to see what the next move holds for the program but the revisionism is tiresome and should stop.

[Keyser Soze]

My biggest question for those who think Gene was wronged is, do you think he should have been extended when we fired him? He had one year left. If you think not, how do you think any conversation could have gone with Gene that included Eric having to say "Gene, we aren't going to extend your contract." Based on what I've seen of Gene and also what was part what made him great, is that there is no way that conversation ends with anything but us needing to fire Gene in order to begin the process of moving on.

I am no fan of Sexton. He was clueless, but anyone who thinks it was going to end smoothly with Gene in any other way than it ending 100% on Gene's terms don't understand Gene's wiring. Basically either you are cool with him basically having tenure and hanging around as long as he would like or you accept that there was no clean way to move on to the future. There really was very litttle in between.

[Keyser Soze]

The real downfall of the program can be traced directly back to the departure of Haysdb

[ShockTalk]

It's almost like it wasn't totally foreseeable with the lack of contract extensions in the immediately preceding 3 years or the nosedive in financials, attendance, and performance over the preceding 5 years, not to mention the off-field fiascos. The fact that we've sucked hard since then doesn't re-write the facts as they stood at that moment, nor does fADES' incompetence in choosing the successor and structuring HCTB's contract.

As much as I enjoy re-hashing this, there were like 6 of us (seriously, I would be shocked if you could find more than 10) who made a single post in the baseball forum between 2010 and 2013 before the firing rumors heated up. Gene's supporters had their chance to save him but they did not think attending games or donating money (and encouraging their friends to do so) was an important part of that equation, and the smattering of internet bitching was insufficient to buy him more time. @shox1989, @shocker3 and @Veritas were the steadfast holdouts in those days who never wavered in their support of Gene. Nobody else, and I mean nobody else, gave even occasional indication on here in the final years that they were remotely interested in the baseball program's continued employment of Gene. When your salary is in the top 5% of coaches in your particular sport for a half-decade+ and your performance is in the top 30-40% for that same period, them's the breaks, notwithstanding the shenanigans not specifically related to performance.

I am excited to see what the next move holds for the program but the revisionism is tiresome and should stop.

While I agree with your post, I don't really think you'd be shocked if there were more than 10 who posted and even posted fairly regularly in the Baseball Forum.

Myself, ShockerFever, SB Shock, Ta Town, Wuzee, martymoose, 1972Shocker, Rosewood, shoxlax, BenWSU, even SubGod come to mind along with the 3 you mentioned all posted pretty regular during that time. I'm sure there are more.

[Play Angry]

While I agree with your post, I don't really think you'd be shocked if there were more than 10 who posted and even posted fairly regularly in the Baseball Forum.

Myself, ShockerFever, SB Shock, Ta Town, Wuzee, martymoose, 1972Shocker, Rosewood, shoxlax, BenWSU, even SubGod come to mind along with the 3 you mentioned all posted pretty regular during that time. I'm sure there are more.

You're right, that was hyperbolic - the numbers did dwindle rapidly though in 2012 and 2013, when entire series would sometimes go without threads.

This thread was probably pretty representative of the board's participation back in 2011 when frustration was reaching its initial boiling point, and this one from 2007 will always remain a classic and bizarre footnote in SN history (looks like it is soon to be pruned, which is a little sad).

[WuShock16]

No kidding. Rehiring Gene is almost as nutty of a concept as keeping Butler around any longer.

The logic that somehow Butler being atrocious = Gene shouldn't have been let go is completely disconnected.

This program was heading nowhere positive. Moving on was the right and obvious decision all things considered. Now how anyone interviewed Butler and thought "that's our guy" confuses the hell out of me...

I know some live in the world of past accomplishments so they are incapable of grasping this but did Scott Thompson being in way over his head mean that Mike Cohen shouldn't have been fired?

I agree with most of this except for:
"Now how anyone interviewed Butler and thought "that's our guy" confuses the hell out of me..."

I would think that most people who met him in that first offseason were incredibly impressed with him. I know I was. He is a great man. Unfortunately, being a great individual doesn't always translate into coaching success/ability...and vice versa. I suppose that there is still a little bit of time left for Todd to turn things around but that time appears to be decreasing rapidly.

[Cdizzle]

AAC needs to hurry up so the AD can move on to the next problem on his list.

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with most of this except for:
"Now how anyone interviewed Butler and thought "that's our guy" confuses the hell out of me..."

I would think that most people who met him in that first offseason were incredibly impressed with him. I know I was. He is a great man. Unfortunately, being a great individual doesn't always translate into coaching success/ability...and vice versa. I suppose that there is still a little bit of time left for Todd to turn things around but that time appears to be decreasing rapidly.

Obviously being able to evaluate someone's probability of success in a very complex role is subjective so I can't say whetehr many who met him casually were able to identify that, but I would hope a D1 athletic director would fully understand that "being a great man" is no where near the list of attributes necessary to be a highly successful coach in a highly competitive universe. Being a great man is a wonderful trait but unfortunately way down the list of what it takes to be successful in that role. It would be a nice bonus if all of the other prereqs exist.

I'll admit I had virtually zero hope for him before WSU ever played a game under him. The reasons for my concern should have been obvious to anyone who was directly involved in the evaluation/hiring process.

[ShockerFever]

Todd Butler and Eric Sexton KILLED this program.

KILLED it.

[DUShock]

Folks forget that HCTB was rumored to be the 3rd or 4th choice.

[Shock Top]

Folks forget that HCTB was rumored to be the 3rd or 4th choice.

who was #1? Hoop?

[SHOCKvalue]

who was #1? Hoop?

DBU head coach

EDIT: The rumor was that Hooper wasn't even a candidate. Something about never completing his degree, but there was a lot of speculation about that being true or not.

[Play Angry]

I believe he completed it shortly before signing on with the softball staff, no?

[SHOCKvalue]

I believe he completed it shortly before signing on with the softball staff, no?

Same thing I remember.