Fire Todd Butler

[1972Shocker]

I can't tell if this a serious thought.

Butler MAY be a disaster hire, but Gene was not the Gene of old....do you think?

Gene will be 72 next year. I have no idea if he would even have an interest in coming back. You might be able to structure something mostly as a peace offering. Hire Gene on a 2-year contract for no more than $200,000 per year. Work with Gene to appoint and hire a HCIW (preferably Hooper or Standiford) who will take over in 2 years. Pay these guys what it takes and pre-negootiate their salary when they take over in two years. Guarantee them 4 or 5 years after taking the reigns. When Gene steps down name the baseball complex after him as long as he plays nice and is a good boy. Otherwise, forgetaboudit.

[Play Angry]

Reconciliation would be great, but re-hiring as head honcho?

Please no. Just bring in Standiford and/or Hooper to run the show.

[1972Shocker]

Reconciliation would be great, but re-hiring as head honcho?

Please no. Just bring in Standiford and/or Hooper to run the show.

I really don't expect that there will be a reconciliation as a practical matter. But I guess anything is possible with the right leadership.

[Play Angry]

I really don't expect that there will be a reconciliation as a practical matter. But I guess anything is possible with the right leadership.

I expect you are right about that. Nobody is mentioning Brent's continued association as an obstacle, either.

I do not believe they swap Christmas cards these days.

[Veritas]

Again to the disgruntled: Are you more upset about the firing of Gene or the hiring of Butler?

Were there that many people in disagreement with the firing at the time?

Yes there were people who disagreed with the termination at the time.
It was plenty damn obvious to many of us what a mess fADES was creating.
Ironic on who fades away now--- fADES or fHCGS?

I hope the next coach comes from within the Shocker family and the stadium, complex, or something major is named after Gene.

[Keyser Soze]

I can't tell if this a serious thought.

Butler MAY be a disaster hire, but Gene was not the Gene of old....do you think?

No kidding. Rehiring Gene is almost as nutty of a concept as keeping Butler around any longer.

The logic that somehow Butler being atrocious = Gene shouldn't have been let go is completely disconnected.

This program was heading nowhere positive. Moving on was the right and obvious decision all things considered. Now how anyone interviewed Butler and thought "that's our guy" confuses the hell out of me...

I know some live in the world of past accomplishments so they are incapable of grasping this but did Scott Thompson being in way over his head mean that Mike Cohen shouldn't have been fired?

[DJShocker10]

From what I know, it always seemed the disconnect between Sexton and Gene was personal. I'm among those who believe that it was probably time for Gene to go, but he didn't deserve to go out the way he did. Hiring Butler was far and away worse for the program than the firing of Gene. The next hire needs to be Standiford or Hooper. Period.

[shockfan89_]

I know some live in the world of past accomplishments so they are incapable of grasping this but did Scott Thompson being in way over his head mean that Mike Cohen shouldn't have been fired?

I get what you're saying but that's a terrible analogy. Mike Cohen didn't have any accomplishments at WSU.

For me it was the way it happened versus what happened. There was no reason for things to go down the way they did except for ADES' personal vendetta against HCGS just like DJShocker10 stated. We have since seen how completely inept ADES was so it seems odd for people to blame HCGS for what occurred (except for the off-the-field behavior which is 100% his fault). You can't really say he was fired for the results on the field since the best year since he left was worse than his worst year while here.

We all could have seen this coming and although I don't think HCTB was the right person for the job, it is also unfair to him because ADES' actions created a perfect storm of those that still supported the ousted coach, division in the coaching staff which had been extremely loyal (maybe to a fault), players that were torn between supporting a legendary coach and playing at the school they had always dreamed of, ...

This never had a chance to work from the beginning so I don't begrudge HCTB for taking the money offered him. I just hope ADDB can see the error of his predecessor and do the right thing for WSU baseball. What possible reason could there be for not hiring a WSU alum like Hooper or Standiford or both? This is a no brainer for ADDB because I doubt many would fault him for the move even if it takes 5 or 6 years for the next coach to turn it around. The most important thing is to mend the relationships ADES severed and get the Shocker family back together.

[shockmonster]

I get what you're saying but that's a terrible analogy. Mike Cohen didn't have any accomplishments at WSU.

For me it was the way it happened versus what happened. There was no reason for things to go down the way they did except for ADES' personal vendetta against HCGS just like DJShocker10 stated. We have since seen how completely inept ADES was so it seems odd for people to blame HCGS for what occurred (except for the off-the-field behavior which is 100% his fault). You can't really say he was fired for the results on the field since the best year since he left was worse than his worst year while here.

We all could have seen this coming and although I don't think HCTB was the right person for the job, it is also unfair to him because ADES' actions created a perfect storm of those that still supported the ousted coach, division in the coaching staff which had been extremely loyal (maybe to a fault), players that were torn between supporting a legendary coach and playing at the school they had always dreamed of, ...

This never had a chance to work from the beginning so I don't begrudge HCTB for taking the money offered him. I just hope ADTB can see the error of his predecessor and do the right thing for WSU baseball. What possible reason could there be for not hiring a WSU alum like Hooper or Standiford or both? This is a no brainer for ADTB because I doubt many would fault him for the move even if it takes 5 or 6 years for the next coach to turn it around. The most important thing is to mend the relationships ADES severed and get the Shocker family back together.

Whatever you say, you are stuck in the past. If you want to talk about great it was and how great Gene was, go at it. He was great. However, to be stuck in his he was wronged makes me cringe to pull up the baseball threads. That story is just no longer interesting.

[shockfan89_]

Whatever you say, you are stuck in the past. If you want to talk about great it was and how great Gene was, go at it. He was great. However, to be stuck in his he was wronged makes me cringe to pull up the baseball threads. That story is just no longer interesting.

I think you missed my point. Not so much concerned that Gene was wronged, concerned about the damage that was done to the program from a move that didn't make much sense at the time and makes even less sense after seeing how it played out. I am fine if you think we can be successful in the future without mending the relationships, IMHO I think it will have a lot to do with our future success regardless of who the coach is. I agree that story is old news now, but the current state is still very real and will need to be addressed by the current AD.

[molly jabali]

I get what you're saying but that's a terrible analogy. Mike Cohen didn't have any accomplishments at WSU.

For me it was the way it happened versus what happened. There was no reason for things to go down the way they did except for ADES' personal vendetta against HCGS just like DJShocker10 stated. We have since seen how completely inept ADES was so it seems odd for people to blame HCGS for what occurred (except for the off-the-field behavior which is 100% his fault). You can't really say he was fired for the results on the field since the best year since he left was worse than his worst year while here.

We all could have seen this coming and although I don't think HCTB was the right person for the job, it is also unfair to him because ADES' actions created a perfect storm of those that still supported the ousted coach, division in the coaching staff which had been extremely loyal (maybe to a fault), players that were torn between supporting a legendary coach and playing at the school they had always dreamed of, ...

This never had a chance to work from the beginning so I don't begrudge HCTB for taking the money offered him. I just hope ADTB can see the error of his predecessor and do the right thing for WSU baseball. What possible reason could there be for not hiring a WSU alum like Hooper or Standiford or both? This is a no brainer for ADTB because I doubt many would fault him for the move even if it takes 5 or 6 years for the next coach to turn it around. The most important thing is to mend the relationships ADES severed and get the Shocker family back together.

ADTB??? Don't you mean ADDB????

[shockmonster]

I hope that soon our AD goes the way of Wedge, and Hooper. That should be our future. I think the problem you speak of will take care of itself.

[ShockCrazy]

I think you missed my point. Not so much concerned that Gene was wronged, concerned about the damage that was done to the program from a move that didn't make much sense at the time and makes even less sense after seeing how it played out. I am fine if you think we can be successful in the future without mending the relationships, IMHO I think it will have a lot to do with our future success regardless of who the coach is. I agree that story is old news now, but the current state is still very real and will need to be addressed by the current AD.

My biggest question for those who think Gene was wronged is, do you think he should have been extended when we fired him? He had one year left. If you think not, how do you think any conversation could have gone with Gene that included Eric having to say "Gene, we aren't going to extend your contract." Based on what I've seen of Gene and also what was part what made him great, is that there is no way that conversation ends with anything but us needing to fire Gene in order to begin the process of moving on.

[shockfan89_]

My biggest question for those who think Gene was wronged is, do you think he should have been extended when we fired him? He had one year left. If you think not, how do you think any conversation could have gone with Gene that included Eric having to say "Gene, we aren't going to extend your contract." Based on what I've seen of Gene and also what was part what made him great, is that there is no way that conversation ends with anything but us needing to fire Gene in order to begin the process of moving on.

Trying not to rehash this because it doesn't matter anymore but there were several options that could have been attempted other than you can choose to resign or you're fired and you have until tomorrow to give me your answer. You may be 100% correct that it would have ended the same as it did. My biggest issue is don't go to a fiery head coach with an ultimatum like that without having a rock solid plan in place. Also, don't take the stance that the new direction for WSU baseball can't include anyone loyal to the program or loyal to the last head coach.

It appears the plan was to hire Dan Heefner from DBU but Dan turned down the job when he found out PCBK was staying and he had no say in the matter. Then it appears HCTB was the 2nd choice. This is the rock solid plan you crafted to approach FHCGS with an ultimatum? I was a Gene supporter (as Head Baseball Coach), but regardless of whether you wanted him fired or extended, as the AD you need a better plan in place to fire someone that had been here so long, and accomplished so much, and still had a decent amount of support. Otherwise you get exactly what has happened.

Now, four years later, I could care less about FHCGS "being wronged". I am sick and tired of paying $1,058 per year for season tickets to sit in an empty stadium and watch non-competitive baseball all while being told things are getting better and I just need to give it more time. So yes, I would have liked to seen FHCGS extended with a very small buyout and provisions to work a transition plan. That probably wouldn't have been easy, especially with FHCGS, but isn't that what the AD's job is? Do whatever it takes to have the best coaching staff in place to ensure a successful program.

Are you sorry you asked the question? :)

[ShockCrazy]

Trying not to rehash this because it doesn't matter anymore but there were several options that could have been attempted other than you can choose to resign or you're fired and you have until tomorrow to give me your answer. You may be 100% correct that it would have ended the same as it did. My biggest issue is don't go to a fiery head coach with an ultimatum like that without having a rock solid plan in place. Also, don't take the stance that the new direction for WSU baseball can't include anyone loyal to the program or loyal to the last head coach.

It appears the plan was to hire Dan Heefner from DBU but Dan turned down the job when he found out PCBK was staying and he had no say in the matter. Then it appears HCTB was the 2nd choice. This is the rock solid plan you crafted to approach FHCGS with an ultimatum? I was a Gene supporter (as Head Baseball Coach), but regardless of whether you wanted him fired or extended, as the AD you need a better plan in place to fire someone that had been here so long, and accomplished so much, and still had a decent amount of support. Otherwise you get exactly what has happened.

Now, four years later, I could care less about FHCGS "being wronged". I am sick and tired of paying $1,054 per year for season tickets to sit in an empty stadium and watch non-competitive baseball all while being told things are getting better and I just need to give it more time. So yes, I would have liked to seen FHCGS extended with a very small buyout and provisions to work a transition plan. That probably wouldn't have been easy, especially with FHCGS, but isn't that what the AD's job is? Do whatever it takes to have the best coaching staff in place to ensure a successful program.

My point is that Eric probably had a plan for the final year, and that it was irrelevant because Gene wasn't going to go along with it regardless. I personally don't see Gene going along with any HCIW scenario no matter who it is. It was his ship(and rightfully so), and he was almost certainly of the opinion that any discussion about the future of baseball at WSU was entirely his.

I agree though on the second half. I have dropped season tickets, and have only been a game in the last year and a half when I got free tickets. The current product isn't worth spending money. I look forward to a more competitive conference schedule in the AAC with a program that lives up to our expectations, and that certainly excludes HCTB.