Fire Todd Butler

[Veritas]

Sad effort, Veritas. Head on back to your primary allegiance at The Phog any time, but please, give us another one of your patented second-grader emotional meltdowns before you go. Those have been a biennial classic on SN for many years.

The rest of us will look forward to attempting to revive our once-proud program rather than bitterly obsessing on a dismissal nearly a half-decade in the past.

The saddest part is, there really is very little (if any) disagreement on SN over the future direction of the program. You cannot help yourself in refusing to get behind change and support that future direction with the rest of the crowd, and instead you desperately cling to fading divisions based on half-sensical arguments related to the prior regime. Bitterness is a poison, and you imbibe it without moderation.

I would wish you best of luck in your continued rooting for KU, as I haven't seen a post from you rooting for WSU baseball in ~5 years now, but those wishes would be insincere as I wish them nothing but shared cellar-dwelling for perpetuity (paired with KSU) in all sports. Instead, I will wish you and your family good health and a long life of supporting our in-state competitor.

Lol... so says the bandwagon Shocker fan who joined Shockernet in 2013. How the heck would you know the history of my posts? Did you spend time reading them? You weren't even around on the prior board! Hell, you weren't even around when Gene was fired! Educate yourself first. Additionally, you have never seen a post from me wishing KU success over WSU; on Phognet or Shockernet. Such a feeble attempt.

Now, gotta catch a flight for my vacation. I expect you to educate yourself before I get back.

[BOBB]

Could be the dumbest move in the history of college athletics. SMH...

Firing Gene? No. Signing Butler to multiple guaranteed years? Yes.

[SHOXAAC]

Gene spoke at the Bill Self Cystic Fibrosis Golf Classic VIP dinner tonight (ironic). He took a couple of pot shots at WSU for his exit which I felt was unnecessary and petty. His overall message about not taking your health for granted and being proactive was spot on however.

[Play Angry]

Lol... so says the bandwagon Shocker fan who joined Shockernet in 2013. How the heck would you know the history of my posts? Did you spend time reading them? You weren't even around on the prior board! Hell, you weren't even around when Gene was fired! Educate yourself first. Additionally, you have never seen a post from me wishing KU success over WSU; on Phognet or Shockernet. Such a feeble attempt.

Now, gotta catch a flight for my vacation. I expect you to educate yourself before I get back.

lol you nitwit, I have been posting on SN under a whopping three different usernames since the 90s. I remember when you arrived, and I'm sure I'll be around when you tuck tail and return to the beaker grey havens for good.

[Play Angry]

It will be interesting to see how ADDB structures the contract for Butler's successor - fADES was in charge when the current albatross was executed, but ADDB was also involved in that hire (to what degree he participated in the contract negotiations I don't know).

I imagine he learned from any mistakes he may have made in that go around.

[Play Angry]

It will be interesting to see how ADDB structures the contract for Butler's successor - fADES was in charge when the current albatross was executed, but ADDB was also involved in that hire (to what degree he participated in the contract negotiations I don't know).

I imagine he learned from any mistakes he may have made in that go around.

[shockfan89_]

Here is how I would structure the new contract:

6 year contracts that can be terminated at any time with a penalty of one year’s base salary.
Head Coach / Hitting Coach - Mark Standiford - Base Salary $75,000
Assistant Head Coach / Infield Coach / Hitting Coach - Kevin Hooper - Base Salary $75,000
Pitching Coach – TBD - Base Salary - $75,000

15% bonus every time you set a new high for season wins. So next year they would have to win 28 and that would become the new season high.
10% for finishing above .500 in the AAC
10% for finishing in the top half of the AAC
40% for finishing 2nd or 3rd in the AAC (includes 10% for above .500 and 10% for top half)
50% for winning the AAC (includes the 40% above)
25% for winning the AAC tournament
50% for making a regional (in addition to any other bonuses)
75% for making the regional championship (includes the 50%)
125% for winning a regional (includes the 50% and 75%)
200% for winning a super-regional and making it to Omaha (includes the 125%)
Additional 20% for every win in Omaha
Additional 100% for CWS championship

Below would be each coaches salary if they reach the following milestones:
$86,250 - win 28 games next year.
$93,750 - finish above .500 in the AAC
$101,250 - finish in the top half of the AAC
$116,250 - finish 2nd or 3rd in the AAC
$123,750 - win the AAC regular season
$142,500 - win the AAC and the tournament
$180,000 - make a regional
$198,750 - get to a regional championship
$236,250 - win a regional
$292,500 – make it to CWS / win Super-regional
$10,000 for each win in Omaha (~ $40,000 for making the championship)
$407,500 – win National Championship

The purpose of structuring a contract this way is to limit the amount WSU has to pay over the next 3 years since we will still be paying HCTB. The contract would still allow a handsome reward for making a regional and beyond. After 3 or 4 years you could re-evaluate as necessary. This would probably only cost WSU an additional $125,000 to $150,000 per year and allow us to move on with a new coaching staff. Of course it would be more if we started winning, but I think that is a risk we should all be excited to take.

[ShockTalk]

I believe the head coach should receive more base than his assistants and that he should be allowed to hire his assistants. I'm sure both Standiford and Hooper are well aware of each other and each others value to the program.

Does anyone have any idea how much both are approximately making currently?

[ArtVandalay]

Here is how I would structure the new contract:

6 year contracts that can be terminated at any time with a penalty of one year’s base salary.
Head Coach / Hitting Coach - Mark Standiford - Base Salary $75,000
Assistant Head Coach / Infield Coach / Hitting Coach - Kevin Hooper - Base Salary $75,000
Pitching Coach – TBD - Base Salary - $75,000

15% bonus every time you set a new high for season wins. So next year they would have to win 28 and that would become the new season high.
10% for finishing above .500 in the AAC
10% for finishing in the top half of the AAC
40% for finishing 2nd or 3rd in the AAC (includes 10% for above .500 and 10% for top half)
50% for winning the AAC (includes the 40% above)
25% for winning the AAC tournament
50% for making a regional (in addition to any other bonuses)
75% for making the regional championship (includes the 50%)
125% for winning a regional (includes the 50% and 75%)
200% for winning a super-regional and making it to Omaha (includes the 125%)
Additional 20% for every win in Omaha
Additional 100% for CWS championship

Below would be each coaches salary if they reach the following milestones:
$86,250 - win 28 games next year.
$93,750 - finish above .500 in the AAC
$101,250 - finish in the top half of the AAC
$116,250 - finish 2nd or 3rd in the AAC
$123,750 - win the AAC regular season
$142,500 - win the AAC and the tournament
$180,000 - make a regional
$198,750 - get to a regional championship
$236,250 - win a regional
$292,500 – make it to CWS / win Super-regional
$10,000 for each win in Omaha (~ $40,000 for making the championship)
$407,500 – win National Championship

The purpose of structuring a contract this way is to limit the amount WSU has to pay over the next 3 years since we will still be paying HCTB. The contract would still allow a handsome reward for making a regional and beyond. After 3 or 4 years you could re-evaluate as necessary. This would probably only cost WSU an additional $125,000 to $150,000 per year and allow us to move on with a new coaching staff. Of course it would be more if we started winning, but I think that is a risk we should all be excited to take.

If this is the contract we are offering, I know of a high school coach or two that might be interested. Gene had a base of $500,000. His assistants made $100,000. Butler is making $300,000. You're better off keeping Butler if all we offer the next guy is $75,000 base. A good coach isn't coming in here with a contract that requires a regional championship just to make $100,000 less than the previous guy's base amount.

The next contract simply needs to be for less years with no auto extension, and a better buyout.

[shockfan89_]

If this is the contract we are offering, I know of a high school coach or two that might be interested. Gene had a base of $500,000. His assistants made $100,000. Butler is making $300,000. You're better off keeping Butler if all we offer the next guy is $75,000 base. A good coach isn't coming in here with a contract that requires a regional championship just to make $100,000 less than the previous guy's base amount.

The next contract simply needs to be for less years with no auto extension, and a better buyout.

Understood. Keep in mind, the two guys at the top of my list may not be making much over $75,000 now, so what we were paying the fHC or HCTB is not as relevant as if we were going after a D1 coach with an established record of winning. Also, the base salaries can change with whatever the AD is willing to pay. I also doubt we will pay the head coach the same as the assistants, or allow the assistants the same incentives as the head coach. It was one option to make a coaching change without paying over a million per year for the next three years in baseball coaches' salaries (keep in mind we are still paying the previous pitching coaches salary too).

Basically the next three years are a sunk cost. I would be willing to spend an additional $150,000 to $250,000 per year to evaluate a new set of coaches over the next three years. Those coaches would have to understand the situation and realize this is a chance to show what they can do at the D1 level and that it may not initially be the most lucrative deal for them.

[SHOCKvalue]

Does anyone have any idea how much both are approximately making currently?

The Equity in Athletics database reports the average head coach's salary at Tabor to be $27K. Assuming Tabor funds/prioritizes their baseball program like most colleges and universities, one might guess Standiford possibly doesn't even make that.

No idea on Hoop.

[Play Angry]

I wonder what income Mark draws from his other roles at the school - genuine question as I have no idea.

[vbird53]

What's the plan? Status quo due to a bad contract? Continue to drain the equity from the proud tradition?

Realistically, how does ADDB make a move owing such $$ to Butler, while planning for exponential expense increases in the coming year with the conference switch? Can it be done?

The baseball program has proven it can be a revenue producer for the University, unlike most others regionally/nationally. Not sure it can claim that now.

[1972Shocker]

@shockfan89 I think your a a little low on the base salary that should be paid to a new head coach. I would think that needs to be more in the area of $200k per year. Also, I don't like the idea of hiring a Head Coach/Hitting Coach and then telling him this guy will be your Associate Head Cocach/Infield Coach/Hitting Coach.

We hire a head coach at a decent but not outlandish salary provide some meaningful and achievable performance compensation and leave it up to him to build his staff. You want to make sure it is clear where the buck stops and not provide any built-in excuses if things don't go well. Also I think the contact should be guaranteed for the first 4 years before the buyout kicks in. Otherwise I like your buyout formula and I generally like your incentive performance targets. I would probably boost the base salary and scale back a bit on the peformance bonuses as necessary, I have no problem paying $500k for a CWS Championship year.

Subject to those tweaks and generally I think you are on the right track.

[shockfan89_]

I don't disagree with anything you mentioned, I was trying to find a creative solution to enable a change to be made now versus waiting a year, or two, or more. The more I look at this the more I think we could make a change now.

HCTB's current salary - $340,000 (as of 6/1/17)
Assistant coaches - By contract HCTB has $385,000 per year to pay 2 assistants and a DOBO. We know PCMS makes $100,000 so I assume ACBW makes around $125,000, which would still leave $60,000. That seems like a lot of money to work with.
fPCBK - Makes $166,924 through 2018 (probably irrelevant to anything that happens, just more money we are obligated to pay).

If my addition is correct, we will be paying $886,924 next year if no changes are made. We are required to pay HCTB and fPCBK next year no matter what happens ($506,924) but I know PCMS has a one-year deal and I assume ACBW and the DOBO have one-year deals as well.

What I am getting at, is even though we are required to pay HCTB $340,000 for the next three years, there is still significant money to go a different direction especially if Standiford or Hooper would work with us on salary. I can't imagine either of them are making anywhere near $150,000 now unless they have other income sources (which they likely do). Why wouldn't we use the next three years to see what they can do? Even if WSU adds nothing to the coaching budget we should have $385,000 to pay a HC, two assistants, and a DOBO. HC - $150,000, PC - $90,000, AC - $90,000, DOBO - $55,000?

What am I missing?