Fire Todd Butler

[mr_baseball]

Can we add Brent to this firing also. He doesn't go to the mound anymore. Doesn't sit in the bullpen either. Obviously by the horrendous team ERA, whatever he is "doing" isn't working and hasn't worked for a long time. This isn't even competing. It's down right embarrassing. I wouldn't be surprised if Tabor came in and smoked us also.

[ShockTalk]

Can we add Brent to this firing also. He doesn't go to the mound anymore. Doesn't sit in the bullpen either. Obviously by the horrendous team ERA, whatever he is "doing" isn't working and hasn't worked for a long time. This isn't even competing. It's down right embarrassing. I wouldn't be surprised if Tabor came in and smoked us also.

Perhaps those more on the inside could find out about this. My guess would be that BK and Butler are not seeing eye to eye regarding the pitching, including the recruitment of pitching. Both may have guarantees in their contracts and push is coming to shove. What I do know is that BK has had a successful career at WSU recruiting and coaching pitchers. I have not seen the same from Butler at WSU for pitchers or position players. Again, strictly guesses.

[KansasShocker]

Perhaps those more on the inside could find out about this. My guess would be that BK and Butler are not seeing eye to eye regarding the pitching, including the recruitment of pitching. Both may have guarantees in their contracts and push is coming to shove. What I do know is that BK has had a successful career at WSU recruiting and coaching pitchers. I have not seen the same from Butler at WSU for pitchers or position players. Again, strictly guesses.

Hit the nail on the head. I also noticed kemnitz not taking mound visits. Talked to my buddy that knows some people within the program (who i extremely trust). I have heard HCTB wants kemnitz gone, has told kemnitz to "shut the f*** up" in front of players and staff. Not saying kemnitz doesnt need to be fired and im not even saying i agree with the taking the pitching coach option out of HCTB hands when he waa hired but i for one think it is complete bull that a head coach (who was a failure in his previous head coaching job) will come in here and completely disrespect one of the best pitching minds in college.

[Veritas]

Hit the nail on the head. I also noticed kemnitz not taking mound visits. Talked to my buddy that knows some people within the program (who i extremely trust). I have heard HCTB wants kemnitz gone, has told kemnitz to "shut the f*** up" in front of players and staff. Not saying kemnitz doesnt need to be fired and im not even saying i agree with the taking the pitching coach option out of HCTB hands when he waa hired but i for one think it is complete bull that a head coach (who was a failure in his previous head coaching job) will come in here and completely disrespect one of the best pitching minds in college.

Poor Brent... Sold his soul to fADES on the firing of GS, and is now in the dog house with TB. He must feel pretty isolated if the reports are true regarding his relationship with TB. There is a lesson there for all you up and coming execs. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

[BostonWu]

Thank goodness ES never had to hire a basketball coach.

[Ricardo del Rio]

The other part of the problem is that brand had been damaged enough that their No. 1 target didn't see it as better program and used it to the leverage his own contract and resources for his program - thus WSU ended up gambling on a un-proven assistant coach.

Here is what confuses me. For many years, Brett K. had great success in recruiting, coaching and developing pitchers. It seems that all of a sudden, he has fallen off a cliff in performance.

Am I wrong? Was there a slow, gradual decline in pitching staff performance?

[Cdizzle]

Here is what confuses me. For many years, Brett K. had great success in recruiting, coaching and developing pitchers. It seems that all of a sudden, he has fallen off a cliff in performance.

Am I wrong? Was there a slow, gradual decline in pitching staff performance?

I think both are true.

I do know that the current head coach had made public comments on multiple occasions about changing they type of players they recruited (basically, you're tall or you're out).

[Ricardo del Rio]

Talked to my buddy that knows some people within the program (who i extremely trust). I have heard HCTB wants kemnitz gone, has told kemnitz to "shut the f*** up" in front of players and staff.

If this is true, then Coach Butler has a serious character flaw. No competent manager would ever denigrate a subordinate in that manner.

[Ricardo del Rio]

MVC's current RPI rankings per WarrenNolan.com

_50 MSU (18-2) - SOS 223
_86 DBU (14-6) - SOS 128
_98 INS (13-8) - SOS 175
161 BRA (9-7) - SOS 245
171 EVN (8-10) - SOS 189
179 SIU (12-7-1) - SOS 248
239 ILS (7-13) - SOS 236
248 WSU (6-14) - SOS 200

Their are a total of 300 D-1 baseball programs. The Shocks are well within the bottom 20% based on RPI at this point.

Awful and embarrassing.

We have a nice scoreboard, however. And a nice ballpark.

[KC Shox]

Here is what confuses me. For many years, Brett K. had great success in recruiting, coaching and developing pitchers. It seems that all of a sudden, he has fallen off a cliff in performance.

Am I wrong? Was there a slow, gradual decline in pitching staff performance?

It's not just pitching. The problem with this program goes far beyond pitching talent and what Brent K has or has not been able to do. The talent level for the ENTIRE team has fallen off of the face of the earth since 2009.

Pitching has no confidence in the defense and offensive support being provided, and the offense can't overcome insurmountable leads that the pitching gives up. It's the chicken or the egg argument. It's a symbiotic relationship and unfortunately, each facet of the Shocker's game has chinks in the armor that end up failing each other. Add in poor coaching and you have a mess of a team.

Talent comes first and we're no longer getting top players like we used to. Sure, we get an infusion of talent sprinkled in from time-to-time, but not nearly enough to sustain success for an entire season.

[1972Shocker]

Awful and embarrassing.

We have a nice scoreboard, however. And a nice ballpark.

I wish we had not upgraded the scoreboard. For one thing a scoreboard is not very useful if you don't score. More importantly what we spent on that new scoreboard would have gone a long way towards buying out Todd Butler's contract.

[pie n eye]

I'm no fan of baseball so I rarely visit this part of Shockernet. In fact this might be my first post on the baseball forum.

When we parted ways with Gene I always kinda thought Kevin Hooper was a no brainer for the job. Former player, younger guy, successful head coach in Wichita, etc. Did we ever even look at him? Obviously it's too late now but I never understood the decision to pass him over for Butler.

[Cdizzle]

It's not too late.

[SHOCKvalue]

I'm no fan of baseball so I rarely visit this part of Shockernet. In fact this might be my first post on the baseball forum.

When we parted ways with Gene I always kinda thought Kevin Hooper was a no brainer for the job. Former player, younger guy, successful head coach in Wichita, etc. Did we ever even look at him? Obviously it's too late now but I never understood the decision to pass him over for Butler.

Rumor was that Hooper did not finish his degree at WSU (or anywhere for that matter), and so he was a non-qualifier for the position. This topic has been passed back and forth since then on SN, so who knows what the actual situation is at this point in time.

Otherwise, I think almost all WSU Baseball fans agree with you, if not then, then certainly now.

[Kung Wu]

Rumor was that Hooper did not finish his degree at WSU (or anywhere for that matter), and so he was a non-qualifier for the position. This topic has been passed back and forth since then on SN, so who knows what the actual situation is at this point in time.

WSU calls him a graduate: http://goshockers.com/news/2015/8/21/SB_0821152215.aspx