So this begs the question....

[shockfan89_]

WuDrWu - There may very well be more recent things I don't know about. I was assuming posters were eluding to events from several years back. My only point is that if they happened several years back they should have been dealt with then, not now. I completely understand your point about Gene not adjusting, and I think I have been very vocal that Gene and JT have the same approach and that is why one of them need to go in favor or someone younger with a different approach.

With that being said, I think we have to give this coaching staff credit for getting through to this team at some level. This team could have given up and packed it in at 12-11 (like most of us fans did) but instead have gone 27-15 since then and have shown us something the past 6 days that has been missing the last few years. Is that the coaching staff fighting for their jobs, is that the team fighting for their coaching staff, is it players finally buying into the team aspect and doing their job? I have no idea but if you measure the failure of the past 3 seasons on not making a regional then you have to count this year as a success.

[WuDrWu]

A strong showing this weekend may allow Gene to play out his contract and return for a farewell tour next season. Barring a run to Omaha, however, there is no chance of an extension.

This is a touchy and divisive issue that we've argued about for a couple years now. Let's enjoy the week ahead and root our boys on at a regional. Plenty of time for Team A vs. Team B after we're done.

Agreed. It should be about the kids and their time. They stepped up and won when they had to and it's incumbent upon Shocker Nation to support them as far as they can go.

Go Shocks!

[WuDrWu]

WuDrWu - There may very well be more recent things I don't know about. I was assuming posters were eluding to events from several years back. My only point is that if they happened several years back they should have been dealt with then, not now. I completely understand your point about Gene not adjusting, and I think I have been very vocal that Gene and JT have the same approach and that is why one of them need to go in favor or someone younger with a different approach.

With that being said, I think we have to give this coaching staff credit for getting through to this team at some level. This team could have given up and packed it in at 12-11 (like most of us fans did) but instead have gone 27-15 since then and have shown us something the past 6 days that has been missing the last few years. Is that the coaching staff fighting for their jobs, is that the team fighting for their coaching staff, is it players finally buying into the team aspect and doing their job? I have no idea but if you measure the failure of the past 3 seasons on not making a regional then you have to count this year as a success.

I'm not of the ilk that says just because something wasn't dealt with in some kind of time appropriate window that now it's water under the bridge.

And who's to say it wasn't dealt with? Is it possible that Gene was told "Gene, we'll welcome you back , but if you stop dominating the Valley you're out. We'll put up with you as long as you're winning big."?

All I'm saying is that there can be a cumulative effect.

Each fan is welcome to measure success and failure however he or she defines it. Personally, if KU, KSU and 1 or 2 Valley teams are as good or better than WSU, that's unacceptable to me. I understand the changing landscape of college baseball and I can accept some of what WSU has to fight against as being borderline insurmountable.

I will not accept that other members of the Valley can do things better than we can, and I will not accept with our history that KU and KSU should automatically be better than us.

[shockfan89_]

Fair enough. For the record I am not implying water under the bridge. I am implying that I disagree with "We'll put up with you as long as you're winning big." That's crap! There is right and there is wrong. If you cross that line I don't care if you are the winningest coach of all time or you have never made post-season play, you are finished.

I agree each fan is welcome to measure success and failure. I was just putting things in terms of the complaints I have read on here about not making the NCAA for the past 3 years (valid IMHO). That string has now been broken regardless of what happens from here on out. I think there are many positives this year that have been missing in the past few years (players improving from year to year, amazing fielding, one person goes down to injury and another steps in without impacting team performance, less (notice I said LESS not none) bonehead plays). Maybe my judgement is clouded by a fabulous week and by hope for what used to be. Maybe we will forget this success rather than build on it.

I just don't see the harm in a contract extension with NO buyout and fire his ass at the end of next year if this is a one week wonder and not a trend back to what can be. At least then you don't hurt the program from a recruiting perspective. I just can't connect with "buyout unless we get to Omaha" and then he can finish his contract. To me the only real options that don't impact the program are buyout or extension REGARDLESS of what we do next week and beyond.

[SB Shock]

ABC - It should be all about the on-field performance now. The off the field stuff should have been handled when it occurred. If anything occurred that impacted Gene's ability to coach the team, he should have been relieved of his coaching duties at that time. It's a complete cop out to use that now as a reason not to extend his contract. I'm not saying I disagree with you, just pointing out that a strong leader deals with things when they occur, not when it's convenient.

Maybe you are just naive. Just because things are not out there in a public forum doesn't mean they are not regurgitating out there. There is pictures floating around (with the help of CU fans), there are stories and there some other stuff (which is just not good) - but it not going to be allowed to be posted here, and probably shouldn't. But if you follow shocker baseball, then you have to hear them - he has become the biggest joke, and it hurts the Athletic department and the School reputation.

[shockfan89_]

SB - See my post above to WuDrWu. I admitted there may be things that someone not as close to the program may not be aware of. If that's the case please take my posts with a grain of salt. The things you mentioned would and should impact a contract extension. Sorry if my ignorance led to more of a discussion than had to take place on a message board.

[ShockTalk]

I will not accept that other members of the Valley can do things better than we can, and I will not accept with our history that KU and KSU should automatically be better than us.

This!! These are the first, basic measures I look at. If we are not accomplishing these, one does not need to look any further. Yep, we've now made another NCAA. However, in both the last 2 cases, had we not won the MVC tourney, we would have been sent home for the summer just as we were in 2010 when we finished 1st in the regular season. That leads to the next measure.....how often would WSU qualify for the NCAA as an at-large.

[ShockerFever]

89, would you have still been here defending Gene if WSU went 2 and cue in Normal? It's a nice but unexpected outcome that happened this week. There is not one disappointed Shocker fan out there. They're going to a place that we always took for granted - an NCAA Regional. It sure is a bit funny seeing you and a few others quickly pop up out of nowhere because WSU got hot for a week. Is that satisfactory to you? To squeak out Valley Tournament titles to get you into the regionals? What about at-large bids? What about hosting regionals? What about the College World Series? Are you fine without those? Do those not matter to you anymore? Because, it's been half a decade since 1 or more of those has occurred, and nearly 2 decades since another 1 has happened.

I will say in my contrary view that it is hard to turn down a man who took this program from literally nothing to THE greatest college baseball program in the country for about a decade. It's a very big grey area. I've had lots of good, childhood memories growing up, watching Gene take his teams to bigtime highs and pretty much owning everybody on the diamond, umpires included. My only concern is that if Gene gets let go and we make a hire that puts us in a worse position than we are now. What if that happens? There is no guarantee that we will have better than what we've had for 35 years. I'm hopeful we can lure a person in here that can build it back to what it once was. It's a different, tough landscape now. It would be interesting to see what we could draw. Can Sexton bring in the big guy that will follow in Gene's footprints? Does he have what it takes?

[shockfan89_]

Fever - Honestly I would think its probably time for a change if WSU went 2 and cue in Normal. The difference to me is this team has been playing better the past three or four weeks (sweep of MSU on the road was huge) and it just all came together this past week. All of your points are valid. I will say I think things changed a lot with super regionals. It's much harder to get to Omaha unless you a host a super regional and you pretty much have to be in the SEC, ACC, PAC 10, or Big 12 for that to occur. I miss all of those things. I am also shocked Texas could ever finish in last place and not even make the Big 12 tournament.

My concern was more about the contract extension vs buyout. I don't care what happens, I will still be a Shocker fan. To do anything that negatively impacts the program is not acceptable. Is that ADES' fault? Is it Gene's? I don't know, but it's BS. Also see my back and forth with SB. There are probably things a lot of you are aware of that I wasn't which could explain my difference of opinion and defense of Gene.

Edit: I still think it's time for a change. I thought it was time for a change 4 years ago. I just wanted that change to be an assistant that would bring a fresh approach, someday make a smooth transition to head coach, and allow the winningest all time baseball coach to have a WSU beside his name and not Texas beside his name when that stat is shown every year on national television during the College World Series...

[WSUwatcher]

I've known Gene for many years and am a huge fan. Nevertheless, there's no question that things are not what they were at WSU as recently as five years ago, nor would that be changed even if the Shocks reach a super regional as they did back then (for the second year in a row, by the way, thus giving the lie to the common myth that WSU's program went into the tank when Gene couldn't make up his mind for a day where he wanted to coach -- but that's another story for another time). Evidence of the deterioration, as I posted recently, is that if the Shocks had not rallied to win the Valley tournament, this would have been the first time in Stephenson's coaching career that a player who was with him for four years (in this case, Coy and McGreevy) failed to get a chance to play in a regional.

Having said all that, it's still inconceivable to me that Gene, being the over-the-top competitor he is (anyone who deliberately goes back and challenges a mountain that could easily have killed him while he was skiing is over the top in my book), will voluntarily leave WSU before claiming the top spot in overall D-I coaching victories.

He isn't that far behind, having gained 12 games so far this season on old Augie (who's also 74 years old to Gene's 67), which makes the current total, as best I can tell, Garrido 1874 and Stephenson 1837 -- just 37 back. (The Shocks' late surge has also helped Gene avoid losing much ground to Mike Martin -- just five games so far this year, as the 44 picked up by Martin (who is also two years older than Gene at 69) give him a current total of 1765, or 72 back.

For what it's worth, I'm guessing that Gene's real target is not just #1 all-time, but 2000 wins, and that he won't stop voluntarily until he gets there -- preferably at WSU, but if not, then someplace that would hire him for the name recognition. I could easily be wrong, but we shall see.

[WSUwatcher]

I thought it was time for a change 4 years ago. I just wanted that change to be an assistant that would bring a fresh approach, someday make a smooth transition to head coach, and allow the winningest all time baseball coach to have a WSU beside his name and not Texas beside his name when that stat is shown every year on national television during the College World Series...

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