Opening Weekend Shocks at Northwestern State Demons

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I don't understand your point. I said what I said. Read into whatever you want to or don't want to, it's makes no difference to me. I believe my statement speaks for itself and is abundantly clear and concise.


A poster asked about the incident, I tried to answer. It has nothing to do with any comment you made.

If I was reading something into what you said then why would I bother asking a question Doc? I didnt ask about your feelings on what I read or dont read.

[WuDrWu]

I dont have a problem with the roster. Someone keeps asking about the players not here and several posters think its okay to just throw out - "not vested" "not good enough" Im having fun with none of them able to prove something they are so sure about.

The pitching staff so far as been impressive.

I am not one of those posters, but I haven't read anyone's post that thinks it's just "okay to just throw out - not vested not good enough" players.

That's a distorted view of what's happened, so let's clarify what's happened.


An old coach was fired.

A new coach was hired.

The new coach and staff were presented with a roster of current student athletes and signed LOIs AND committed student athletes not on scholarships that exceeded the maximum limits allowed by the NCAA.

The Head Coach is the only one responsible for getting those numbers to the limits. He alone gets to choose the criteria. If the number is 40 and there are 10 players that are exactly the same in every way and all are 100% committed to doing whatever is necessary, still 5 of them are going to be cut, somehow, someway.

The new coach set his criteria of expectations. Personally (not that it matters to anyone) I didn't think any of those criteria are out of line, but I certainly could understand why a given player might not agree with the approach.

The new coach decided on the 35. As he is required to do. I also believe the new coach is committed to not repeating this practice in the future.

Since the cuts were made to 35, others have also left the program. Each departure had it's own unique set of circumstances. Some kids left completely on their own. Some kids left that wanted to stay. (Prior to the 35) Some simply were not good enough to play D1 baseball in the opinion of the coaches, and that's the only opinion that counts. Some may have been committed to being accountable then chose to do things that adversely affected the team or themselves. Like I said, each was different.

I will not go into a name by name accounting of who left and why. I will say there was a player who left that liked the previous staff and their approach, and completely disagreed with the current staff's approach and believed it to be against his own future. He chose to leave. Everyone I know wishes that student athlete the best future possible.

These are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed.

[WuDrWu]

If I was reading something into what you said then why would I bother asking a question Doc? I didnt ask about your feelings on what I read or dont read.

Do you disagree with what I wrote?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I am not one of those posters, but I haven't read anyone's post that thinks it's just "okay to just throw out - not vested not good enough" players.

That's a distorted view of what's happened, so let's clarify what's happened.


An old coach was fired.

A new coach was hired.

The new coach and staff were presented with a roster of current student athletes and signed LOIs AND committed student athletes not on scholarships that exceeded the maximum limits allowed by the NCAA.

The Head Coach is the only one responsible for getting those numbers to the limits. He alone gets to choose the criteria. If the number is 40 and there are 10 players that are exactly the same in every way and all are 100% committed to doing whatever is necessary, still 5 of them are going to be cut, somehow, someway.

The new coach set his criteria of expectations. Personally (not that it matters to anyone) I didn't think any of those criteria are out of line, but I certainly could understand why a given player might not agree with the approach.

The new coach decided on the 35. As he is required to do. I also believe the new coach is committed to not repeating this practice in the future.

Since the cuts were made to 35, others have also left the program. Each departure had it's own unique set of circumstances. Some kids left completely on their own. Some kids left that wanted to stay. (Prior to the 35) Some simply were not good enough to play D1 baseball in the opinion of the coaches, and that's the only opinion that counts. Some may have been committed to being accountable then chose to do things that adversely affected the team or themselves. Like I said, each was different.

I will not go into a name by name accounting of who left and why. I will say there was a player who left that liked the previous staff and their approach, and completely disagreed with the current staff's approach and believed it to be against his own future. He chose to leave. Everyone I know wishes that student athlete the best future possible.

These are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed.

Im not sure why you're quoting me to post this. While I certainly think its okay to question exactly what happened at the end of the day it's not that big of a concern to me. You must not read the forum at all considering the post I quoted had exactly that in it. Facts are undisputed? Whose facts? I dont know anything you say is true the same way I dont anything they players and their families have said are true.

As I've alluded to a few times - What you say is correct - This program isn't for everyone. I'm fine with that. Apparently having the stance "Hey this is highly irregular" so controversial.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Do you disagree with what I wrote?

Kindly quote where I said anything wrong?

[WuDrWu]

Kindly quote where I said anything wrong?

Kindly quote where I said anything wrong?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Kindly quote where I said anything wrong?

No please I insist.

[Sadshocker]

This isn't football or basketball dude. These "kids" are paying for the privilege to play baseball at Wichita State. I recall Brady Slavens graduating HS early just come to Wichita. Next time you or anyone of you dweebs out here want to start in with the "they weren't vested" or "They didn't want to be here" probably should remember that then go **** yourself with your opinion.

The Butler years were terrible. I realized he's loathed and I'm not here to change anyone's mind about him. Baseball recruiting had taken a HUGE hit nationally after the Ben Christiansen incident. The next blow was the class that never came (Watkins/Kozma/Norris). Butler has had some absolute dudes on campus that he couldn't coach to save his life. He was getting that major in-state talent to stay home.

As happy as I am to have Eric Wedge back in Wichita that still doesn't change the fact that he gutted 2 recruiting classes and a full roster. That's highly irregular. I'm all for setting the tone but its certainly okay to say "This is weird wtf is going on"

Finally someone who gets it! Thank you. My issue was not that he had to make hard or unfair decisions but it was the manner in which he did it. If you are cutting kids because HCTB overpromised, you don’t have to tell kids that “they are borderline talent” or “just not a champion” or “you’re just not that good”. Why? It’s ok to say that someone was better or that they don’t see them getting opportunity on this team but to belittle the kids and crush them, that’s not modeling the “culture” he is preaching. That’s the real issue but most of you won’t admit that was an unnecessary approach to an already bad idea.

[Sadshocker]

Here’s some things I find totally hypercritical about this who thread. You all applaud the culture HCEW is creating. And improvements are necessary. You all act like the kids that left are talentless, didn’t buy in, etc but I have yet to see where any of this is anything but speculation. What I do know is how some of the kids that were cut were handled and it doesn’t line up with regurgitations coming out of HCEW’s mouth. Fine, HCTB put us in a position where we were way over numbers. That’s a pretty clear reason many were cut. Some kids were cut before new coaches even saw anything but a tape. Some kids were called two weeks prior to their move in dates letting them know they weren’t wanted. But when you talk about being respectable men and cresting a culture of champions and you can’t treat some of these student athletes with basic human courtesy; then that’s where you lost me.

It’s fine to tell a kid when cutting him or relieving him of his scholarship that someone beat them out, they don’t see him fitting into the program, etc. What isn’t fine is how he treated these kids behind closed doors. “You’re really not that good of a baseball player”, “you’re marginal”, “you’re not a champion”. What???? So much of this is messed up beyond comprehension. This isn’t one kid’s story. This message was consistent. It didn’t need to be said.

please explain to me why this group doesn’t allow criticism of a man that says one thing and acts another way because they are blindly following him like he’s a king. This is why criticism occurs.

[WichitaStateGuy]

Here’s some things I find totally hypercritical about this who thread. You all applaud the culture HCEW is creating. And improvements are necessary. You all act like the kids that left are talentless, didn’t buy in, etc but I have yet to see where any of this is anything but speculation. What I do know is how some of the kids that were cut were handled and it doesn’t line up with regurgitations coming out of HCEW’s mouth. Fine, HCTB put us in a position where we were way over numbers. That’s a pretty clear reason many were cut. Some kids were cut before new coaches even saw anything but a tape. Some kids were called two weeks prior to their move in dates letting them know they weren’t wanted. But when you talk about being respectable men and cresting a culture of champions and you can’t treat some of these student athletes with basic human courtesy; then that’s where you lost me.

It’s fine to tell a kid when cutting him or relieving him of his scholarship that someone beat them out, they don’t see him fitting into the program, etc. What isn’t fine is how he treated these kids behind closed doors. “You’re really not that good of a baseball player”, “you’re marginal”, “you’re not a champion”. What???? So much of this is messed up beyond comprehension. This isn’t one kid’s story. This message was consistent. It didn’t need to be said.

please explain to me why this group doesn’t allow criticism of a man that says one thing and acts another way because they are blindly following him like he’s a king. This is why criticism occurs.

I will say -- your initials are fitting.

Have you ever had to face any adversity in your entire life? Have you ever really been pushed? Based on all your posts, I can almost certainly deduct the answers to these questions are no.

What I'm about to share will suit you well in life, if you let it.

It doesn't matter whose son you are, eventually, you're going to have to sit on your own bottom. Your father can either set you down, or the world can knock you down. Some stand back up, while some others never do.

Eric Wedge is a leader. He is and undisputed top-level evaluator of baseball talent. His resume bares this out. You're comeuppance with the man- and correct me if I'm wrong- is that he's unpolished? Abrupt? Untactful?

Lmao rofl hahahahahaha gtfoh.

Did it ever occur to you that this is how people get talked to every single day in the real world? Did it ever occur to you maybe he was testing kids? Perhaps he wanted a little, "Let me prove you wrong. I'll come in more. I'll play wherever you want. I'll take out a loan like 80% of college kids just to stay on the team, coach. I bleed black and yellow." When I was in the Marine Corps, if the worst my drill-instructor said to me was, "You're marginal," then I would have thought the bus accidentally dropped me off at the Coast Guard. Interestingly enough, the same drill-instructors that called me every terrible name in the book and begged me to quit every single day, were the first ones to shake my hand, look me in the eye, and call me a Marine at the conclusion of boot. They pushed us to be the best version of ourselves. They knocked us off our daddy's lap, but pushed us to pick ourselves back up. And the ones that didn't make it? I'd venture to guess the drill instructors did them a favor, in the vast array of things.

I have zero doubt that Eric Wedge is old school, abrupt, and- by today's standard- mean, but if that's your complaint, take a good, long, hard look in the mirror, kid, and get off your daddy's lap. The world has zero sympathy for people like you. Grow up.

[WuDrWu]

Given an accomplished adult, especially one with a public track record of success mentoring young people, I'll believe the adult's version vs the child's version every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Kung Wu]

What isn’t fine is how he treated these kids behind closed doors. “You’re really not that good of a baseball player”, “you’re marginal”, “you’re not a champion”. What???? So much of this is messed up beyond comprehension. This isn’t one kid’s story. This message was consistent.

And we're supposed to believe this because .... ?

[Sadshocker]

Believe it. It was told to several kids. One recorded it on his cell phone. A very consistent yet off brand message approach.

[Kung Wu]

Believe it. It was told to several kids. One recorded it on his cell phone. A very consistent yet off brand message approach.

What does "You're marginal" mean to you?

[Cdizzle]

:yawn: