Opening Weekend Shocks at Northwestern State Demons

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

The kids that aren't here any longer either weren't good enough, didn't want to work hard enough, or didn't want to play a position that wasn't promised to them by Butler. Butler waaaaay over-recruited in an attempt to save his job. In that sense, he took players who simply don't belong and made promises he couldn't keep. Some of these kids should have realized that they are not D1 players (at this time anyway). They might develop and move on to better situations, but it won't be at WSU. In fact, some or most will end up in a better place if they learn from this tough life lesson. The world ain't fair, in fact if Butler was still here he would be cutting many of these same kids because there weren't enough roster spots. He created this problem and Wedge is cleaning it up. It's not fair to Wedge either. Judge Wedge on what he does with players HE brings in and how he improves those he has on the roster. Sad song, but a song it is.

Delusional

[WuDrWu]

*sigh*

*Tells self it's not worth it......It's not worth it*

[CoachJ]

This isn't football or basketball dude. These "kids" are paying for the privilege to play baseball at Wichita State. I recall Brady Slavens graduating HS early just come to Wichita. Next time you or anyone of you dweebs out here want to start in with the "they weren't vested" or "They didn't want to be here" probably should remember that then go **** yourself with your opinion.

The Butler years were terrible. I realized he's loathed and I'm not here to change anyone's mind about him. Baseball recruiting had taken a HUGE hit nationally after the Ben Christiansen incident. The next blow was the class that never came (Watkins/Kozma/Norris). Butler has had some absolute dudes on campus that he couldn't coach to save his life. He was getting that major in-state talent to stay home.

As happy as I am to have Eric Wedge back in Wichita that still doesn't change the fact that he gutted 2 recruiting classes and a full roster. That's highly irregular. I'm all for setting the tone but its certainly okay to say "This is weird wtf is going on"

can you explain

Ben Christiansen incident?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

can you explain

Ben Christiansen incident?

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Ben+Christensen+Wichita+State

[WuDrWu]

In 1999 a Wichita State pitcher, while warming up before the game started, was instructed to throw at an Evansville player who was taking warm up swings in an area not designated to take warm up swings. I don't think anyone questions that the intent was for Ben to "buzz the tower" but instead he hit the player in the head and caused a permanent injury. Anthony Molina recovered to play eventually but by all accounts was never the same, and has suffered from the incident since. Molina sued and won an undisclosed amount from various entities. Ben never played college ball again, WSU fell in the rankings (they were #1 or #2 at the time of the incident), Brent Kemnitz, who publicly stated that he told Ben to throw it, was suspended for the year. Ben's draft status was hurt and he never pitched in the bigs. He's now a partner at Frontier Wealth Management. Molina struggled with life and 2012 plead out on 2 counts of sexual abuse of a minor under the age of 10. He was sentenced to 6 years and whereabouts are unknown today.

It's widely believed that WSU's ability to recruit suffered mightily after the incident. They were among the strongest programs in the country at the time. Certainly top 10 and perhaps top 5 and their fall from the top was fast and they have yet to recover.

There is no defense for the incident. It's true Molina wasn't where he should have been. The throw is one example of many stupid sports "unwritten rules" and when you throw at someone's head to send a message, eventually someone is going to get hurt. A whole bunch of people were hurt in different ways and have never recovered. It's sad, embarrassing and never should have happened.

The incident's effect on recruiting today, or the program in general, is no more than 1/1000th that being a cold weather school affects recruiting. Or to say it a different way, it has no effect today.

[shockfan89_]

I am a little confused on the last page of this thread. Do people disagree with HCEW roster decisions? Are there guys that were cut that you think shouldn't have been?

I get that we only have 30 players and could have 35 on the roster, but it is also a fact that we were 20 or 22 OVER the roster limit when HCEW was hired. HCEW had to "run off" almost 40% of the players we had and the players we had recruited just to get down to the roster limit.

Obviously he made a few errors in some of the ones he kept (since they are now gone), but I think it is also fair to assume a handful of guys thought they could cut it and then realized that HCEW really means what he says and isn't just saying words that sound good.

Anybody that knows ANYTHING about baseball can watch this team and in 8 games determine we are playing better baseball than we have the past 6 seasons. I'm not saying we kept the 30 most talented guys, but obviously this coaching staff kept guys that are coachable and are buying in. We might finish 6-50 this year, but so far the level of baseball IQ is WAY BETTER which will eventually translate to wins.

If you disagree with HCEW roster decisions that is fine. I am going to give the coaching staff a few more recruiting classes before I start judging whether they can recruit players or not. Right now, I am judging what they do with the talent they inherited. So far, I am fairly impressed, but I will be the first to admit there is a long way to go.

[Shockm]

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Ben+Ch...+Wichita+State

You have some issues. I don't know who you are, but you are all over the place and want to criticize everything baseball. You bring up the Ben Christensen incident from way back in the late 1990's. That may be Gene or Brent, but what does that have to do with Wedge, Pelfrey, or Hibbs?

This is a NEW BEGINNING sport. It doesn't seem like you care about Wichita State baseball and just want a platform to criticize. Either get on the wagon or get off but leave your past issues with yourself or find Gene or Brent to vent on.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

You have some issues. I don't know who you are, but you are all over the place and want to criticize everything baseball. You bring up the Ben Christensen incident from way back in the late 1990's. That may be Gene or Brent, but what does that have to do with Wedge, Pelfrey, or Hibbs?

This is a NEW BEGINNING sport. It doesn't seem like you care about Wichita State baseball and just want a platform to criticize. Either get on the wagon or get off but leave your past issues with yourself or find Gene or Brent to vent on.

How old are you and how have you made it this far in life?

[Shockm]

How old are you and how have you made it this far in life?

Old enough and smart enough to see that anyone who brings up an incident from over 20 years ago has an agenda that they won't admit to.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Old enough and smart enough to see that anyone who brings up an incident from over 20 years ago has an agenda that they won't admit to.

You care to tell me what my agenda is?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

It's widely believed that WSU's ability to recruit suffered mightily after the incident. They were among the strongest programs in the country at the time. Certainly top 10 and perhaps top 5 and their fall from the top was fast and they have yet to recover.

The incident's effect on recruiting today, or the program in general, is no more than 1/1000th that being a cold weather school affects recruiting. Or to say it a different way, it has no effect today.

So then you agree with what I wrote about it? I left the 2nd part because those are your words. Not mine.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I am a little confused on the last page of this thread. Do people disagree with HCEW roster decisions? Are there guys that were cut that you think shouldn't have been?

I get that we only have 30 players and could have 35 on the roster, but it is also a fact that we were 20 or 22 OVER the roster limit when HCEW was hired. HCEW had to "run off" almost 40% of the players we had and the players we had recruited just to get down to the roster limit.

Obviously he made a few errors in some of the ones he kept (since they are now gone), but I think it is also fair to assume a handful of guys thought they could cut it and then realized that HCEW really means what he says and isn't just saying words that sound good.

Anybody that knows ANYTHING about baseball can watch this team and in 8 games determine we are playing better baseball than we have the past 6 seasons. I'm not saying we kept the 30 most talented guys, but obviously this coaching staff kept guys that are coachable and are buying in. We might finish 6-50 this year, but so far the level of baseball IQ is WAY BETTER which will eventually translate to wins.

If you disagree with HCEW roster decisions that is fine. I am going to give the coaching staff a few more recruiting classes before I start judging whether they can recruit players or not. Right now, I am judging what they do with the talent they inherited. So far, I am fairly impressed, but I will be the first to admit there is a long way to go.

I dont have a problem with the roster. Someone keeps asking about the players not here and several posters think its okay to just throw out - "not vested" "not good enough" Im having fun with none of them able to prove something they are so sure about.

The pitching staff so far as been impressive.

[ShockerFever]

He was getting that major in-state talent above 6 ft tall to stay home.

FIFY

[WuDrWu]

So then you agree with what I wrote about it? I left the 2nd part because those are your words. Not mine.

I don't understand your point. I said what I said. Read into whatever you want to or don't want to, it's makes no difference to me. I believe my statement speaks for itself and is abundantly clear and concise.


A poster asked about the incident, I tried to answer. It has nothing to do with any comment you made.

[Shocker1976]

In 1999 a Wichita State pitcher, while warming up before the game started, was instructed to throw at an Evansville player who was taking warm up swings in an area not designated to take warm up swings. I don't think anyone questions that the intent was for Ben to "buzz the tower" but instead he hit the player in the head and caused a permanent injury. Anthony Molina recovered to play eventually but by all accounts was never the same, and has suffered from the incident since. Molina sued and won an undisclosed amount from various entities. Ben never played college ball again, WSU fell in the rankings (they were #1 or #2 at the time of the incident), Brent Kemnitz, who publicly stated that he told Ben to throw it, was suspended for the year. Ben's draft status was hurt and he never pitched in the bigs. He's now a partner at Frontier Wealth Management. Molina struggled with life and 2012 plead out on 2 counts of sexual abuse of a minor under the age of 10. He was sentenced to 6 years and whereabouts are unknown today.

It's widely believed that WSU's ability to recruit suffered mightily after the incident. They were among the strongest programs in the country at the time. Certainly top 10 and perhaps top 5 and their fall from the top was fast and they have yet to recover.

There is no defense for the incident. It's true Molina wasn't where he should have been. The throw is one example of many stupid sports "unwritten rules" and when you throw at someone's head to send a message, eventually someone is going to get hurt. A whole bunch of people were hurt in different ways and have never recovered. It's sad, embarrassing and never should have happened.

The incident's effect on recruiting today, or the program in general, is no more than 1/1000th that being a cold weather school affects recruiting. Or to say it a different way, it has no effect today.

Wow I was unaware of this or are you taking liberties with John Grisham's book "Calico Joe'"? A great read for all baseball fans.