Conference Shake Up 2.0

[SubGod22]

Anyone else think Elgin just likes getting smoke blown up his arse and is just milking this for all he can?

That, or he's an idiot and really doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

[GoShockers89]

I'm glad Denver's still in the running. I agree with Sub- they are my top choice by a wide margin.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Belmont -- consistent NCAA appearances, great RPI, but needs facilities upgrades
Murray St -- solid program, good RPI, lots of potential, but small market
ORU -- good RPI, but heard there's some financial issues
DU -- huge potential and a recent strong focus on basketball, but not a great basketball tradition and little historical success
Valpo -- there's an astronaut on the court!! Unbelievable!!

That's the order and extent of my list. Any of the other schools mentioned would only serve as punching bags for Drake, and that's not the direction this conference needs to go in.

[SubGod22]

Belmont -- consistent NCAA appearances, great RPI, but needs facilities upgrades - Major attendance issues makes me wonder if they're another Evansville/Drake type. Money is a concern.
Murray St -- solid program, good RPI, lots of potential, but small market - I agree with this
ORU -- good RPI, but heard there's some financial issues - Financial issues are no longer a concern. Not sure how high their ceiling is.
DU -- huge potential and a recent strong focus on basketball, but not a great basketball tradition and little historical success - Heavy investment and I believe have a larger athletic budget than us. Basketball continues to improve.
Valpo -- there's an astronaut on the court!! Unbelievable!! - They are what they are. Solid performance and okay attendance.

That's the order and extent of my list. Any of the other schools mentioned would only serve as punching bags for Drake, and that's not the direction this conference needs to go in.

There are definitely pros and cons to all of them.

[rrshock]

I saw Denver listed in the others list on one of the pre-season polls that were just released.

[SubGod22]

I hadn't noticed that but I also haven't looked at the others. I think they've been a Top 100 RPI team the last few years in the Belt and the WAC and keep getting better. And I believe we've scrimmaged them within the last few years and thought I heard they weren't too shabby.

I think it's obvious that I really want Denver to be added based on who we've heard are getting site visits. Money is not an issue. Attendance is not an issue. They've been steadily improving. It's a new market that's easy to get to for everyone despite the distance. They may not be top dog in Denver but they're not forgotten.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

And DU is one away game I could attend every year guaranteed. So I'm all for them joining. They just don't have the same name recognition and recent success that Belmont and Murray State do--I know, which isn't saying much, but still...

DU has high potential though. Very high. Like Creighton and WSU high.

[RoyalShock]

And DU is one away game I could attend every year guaranteed. So I'm all for them joining. They just don't have the same name recognition and recent success that Belmont and Murray State do--I know, which isn't saying much, but still...

DU has high potential though. Very high. Like Creighton and WSU high.

Can you elaborate on why you think their potential is so high, other than their location?

[SubGod22]

Can you elaborate on why you think their potential is so high, other than their location?

He may be able to provide more being out there, but money/investment is one. I think their athletic budget is around 20mil a year and they've been making great improvements in the sport the past 5 years. I think they're truly dedicated to basketball being a player. Hockey will remain number 1, but it helps their investment in basketball.

That investment ability is why I like them over everyone else. Belmont has major concerns when Byrd retires. Murray is solid but has no market. Denver could compete in the upper half of the Valley right now and I think they can get better. I honestly feel they could be a top 3 team consistently within the next 3-5 years.

[GoShockers89]

Good points by everyone. I would add that Denver's ceiling is much higher than, say Oral Roberts, because of its priority in its market. Colorado is inarguably top dog in Denver metro, but their hoops following is still pretty meager because they were so crappy for most of 50 years. Tad is rolling right now but if he leaves, look out below. CSU's hoops following in the city is pretty much nonexistent, and most of their fanbase is spread out upstate or in more rural areas.

This puts Denver as the #2 school in a pretty big metro in terms of fanbase, which means they can grab a lot of market share if they improve the product. ORU, by comparison, will absolutely never ever ever under any circumstances in a million bizillion years leapfrog any of (1) OU; (2) OSU; (3) Tulsa in just the city of Tulsa alone in terms of fanbase. They do pretty well for themselves at 5k-ish per game, but there's really just no room for them to grow from there. DU could easily double its attendance over 5-10 years if they become a top 50 team.

[Kung Wu]

DU has high potential though. Very high.

Well of course their potential is very "high". They legalized marijuana out there.

If Denver joins then let's hope Jamar Howard doesn't become an assistant coach, or we might lose him for a game or two.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

DU is a private school so information about their athletic budget is hard to come by, but last I heard it's almost $30 million. I think that would make them #1 in the Valley, though some of that money is spent on sports the Valley doesn't sponsor so I don't know how that affects the calculation. I do not have any reliable information on what the basketball budget is.

As recent as about 5 years ago, the athletic department was really struggling and incurring huge deficits (around $8 million). I found this article that does of good job of describing where they once were: http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16462825.

Since then, the University has made a strong commitment to turning around its athletic fortunes--I think mainly due to increased fund raising and a new athletic director who is top notch. Here is an article that does a good job describing how dramatic the improvement has been: http://www.denverpost.com/du/ci_18473824

Men's hockey is the king on campus, and each year the school puts a team on the ice that contends for national championships. They have won the NC seven times, most recently back to back titles in 2004-2005. That sport is a big deal and they pack their arena every game. But I think they realized that hockey's national appeal is limited, so they've been putting much more emphasis on their basketball program recently than they have been in the past. Basketball has always seemed like an afterthought there, and it shows in just 2 NIT appearance and the fact they have never (that's right, never) been to the NCAA tournament since they went to Division I in 1998. This year they tied for first in the WAC regular season, won 22 games, but lost in the second round of the WAC tournament. They average about 5k basketball attendance.

Magness Arena is used by both the hockey team and the basketball team. I've been there a couple of times and it is a beautiful facility. Seating capacity is 7,000 and it has luxury suites, so it is a step above the barns at some Valley schools. I think it's only about 10 years old or so.

Prominent DU donors include the Magness family (Bob Magness made his money in cable TV), Pat Bowlen (owns the Denver Broncos), the Coors family (bottoms up!), over 50 NHL players, and lawyers who graduated from the law school.

DU doesn't have a football team and there are no plans or even talk to bring it back.

As far as TV markets, DU plays a distant third to CU and CSU in the Denver area. But Denver would be by far the largest TV market in the Valley, and would be larger than any market any of the other potential schools are in except Chicago.

So to sum it up, there are stark contrasts between the pros and the cons for adding DU to the Valley. Historically, DU has done jack squat on the basketball court. No tradition, no name recognition, never been to the Dance. But on the other hand, they would bring the largest athletic budget (with a large and generous donor base) into the Valley, a focus on improving athletic programs that many of the weak sisters of the east can't even fathom, and an athletic department that has won almost 30 NCAA titles (mostly hockey and skiing, which won't be Valley sports, but I submit this as a sign of the department's winning attitude).

If the Valley wants to add an established program with recent NCAA success, DU ain't it. But if the Valley is looking at potential and up and coming programs, forget UIC and some of those other ridiculous wastes of time and pick DU. We would mop the court with these guys the first few years, but I doubt it would take DU very long to become competitive. This is no Evansville.

[GoShockers89]

That is an excellent, well thought out post.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

That is an excellent, well thought out post.

Thanks, I'm just a blind squirrel that found a nut. :)

[RoyalShock]

Thanks Rocky, that certainly answers my question! You have me convinced that they are a worthy target and at least on par with, and possibly better than, the others mentioned.