Conference Shake Up 2.0

[SubGod22]

The BE as it currently is, or will be, is still better than CUSA as far as basketball goes. Temple, Memphis, Cincinnati and UConn are better than any four CUSA can throw at them. Tulsa also wants to be in a conference with Houston and SMU as they have strong Texas ties and having Tulane probably doesn't hurt. All relatively close, as is Memphis.

You're correct in that it is basically CUSA from a few years ago with a few exceptions. It's not the BE we've known from the past decade or two, but it's still one that can get multiple bids. Not 9, but three to five potentially. CUSA will be a one, maybe two bid league. I do think that Tulsa would fit in with the MWC, but I don't think that they like the idea of Colorado State and AFA being the closest to them.

IF the MWC went to 14 or 16 and added some Texas schools, Tulsa MIGHT consider going west. But I think Houston is the big deal. Whoever has Houston, probably gets Tulsa.

[LuskingforGuttin]

I am hearing from a very good source that UMKC is heading to the Western Athletic Conference. This should be official by Monday at the latest.

I know some people had wanted them in the Valley. I was not one of those people. Thankfully it won't come to that.

[SubGod22]

Who on earth wanted them in the MVC? And why would they join the WAC? Maybe they can be more competitive with that group??? More travel though as well.

[SubGod22]

It does appear that UMKC, for some unknown reason, is leaving the Summit for the WAC. You have to wonder if this signals something about the Summit. ORU left, now UMKC is leaving, and both for inferior sports conferences.

One has to wonder if their is a lot of tension in the Summit or if the writing is on the wall and it gets shredded in the next year or two because of realignment. If the C7 pulls in who they're targeting and both the Horizon and MVC react, the Summit could stand to lose a handful of schools.

I don't know where the Horizon stands right now as far as number of members, but if the MVC pulled in a Wright State and/or Milwaukee (just examples), they turn around and take from the Summit. Does the Horizon already have 12 or is that where they want to get? I'm not completely sure. But if they have to add already to get to 12, there's a couple more from the Summit most likely. The MVC could, in theory, go straight at the Summit itself and take the Dakotas. And if the Horizon still needs to add to get to 12, there's four or five schools and the conference is in trouble.

Now, if the MVC went to 12, I don't see them taking both Dakotas and probably no more than one from the Horizon. But two could be a possibility. I think the OVC could also be threatened by us if we went after one, or both, of Murray State and Belmont. Would they replace one or both with anyone from the Summit? I doubt it.

This really could be more simple than everything I just said. ORU talked about saving money on travel and that is probably accurate. UMKC could feel that even with increased travel costs, they have a better chance to succeed in the WAC and that it's a better place to try and grow their brand in that regard.

[pogo]

In that regard reminds me of Steve Shogren when he was the color guy on Shocker broadcasts.

[rrshock]

UMKC isn't really close to any of those schools. UTA, Louisiana Tech, Denver and Texas State are closest, and those aren't close. That league is probably an upgrade, but at this point, no one really knows what leagues will look like in a few years.

The MVC just needs to pluck a couple other schools and go to 12, regardless is Creighton leaves. The best additions, at least right now, are closer to the poor sisters, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Could the MVC go bigger to say 14? Of course this is making (most likely) a horrible assumption that Elgin and the poor sisters will do anything at all.

[1979Shocker]

If the MVC went to 12 teams, that would solve our OOC scheduling as long as we played each team in the conference twice (4 less OOC games).

[SubGod22]

UMKC isn't really close to any of those schools. UTA, Louisiana Tech, Denver and Texas State are closest, and those aren't close. That league is probably an upgrade, but at this point, no one really knows what leagues will look like in a few years.

The MVC just needs to pluck a couple other schools and go to 12, regardless is Creighton leaves. The best additions, at least right now, are closer to the poor sisters, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Could the MVC go bigger to say 14? Of course this is making (most likely) a horrible assumption that Elgin and the poor sisters will do anything at all.

The four teams you listed above are in their last year in the WAC. UMKC's closest school would be Chicago State followed by UTPA.

I do think we should go to 12 no matter what.

[SubGod22]

If the MVC went to 12 teams, that would solve our OOC scheduling as long as we played each team in the conference twice (4 less OOC games).

I don't see this or any other conference playing 22 conference games. There would most likely be an east/west split so the poor sisters didn't have to travel as much and could whore themselves out more.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I don't see this or any other conference playing 22 conference games. There would most likely be an east/west split so the poor sisters didn't have to travel as much and could whore themselves out more.

I would also like to see the MVC expand to 12. In this scenario, we would play the 5 division teams twice and then play the 6 teams from the other division once (alternating home and away each year), correct? Am I thinking right?

So, we would effectively lose one conference home and one conference away game from our current 18 game conference schedule. Do you think we would use those two games to "Gonzaga" our schedule--go play a BCS team at their barn, beat them, and take their money?

[SubGod22]

I would also like to see the MVC expand to 12. In this scenario, we would play the 5 division teams twice and then play the 6 teams from the other division once (alternating home and away each year), correct? Am I thinking right?

So, we would effectively lose one conference home and one conference away game from our current 18 game conference schedule. Do you think we would use those two games to "Gonzaga" our schedule--go play a BCS team at their barn, beat them, and take their money?

You are correct. Most likely.

And I would be fine with doing something like that with the two extra games.

[Ta town]

12 makes no sense unless u r having a football championship.

9 teams get u 16 games a year and 3 less teams to split the pie with.

[rrshock]

12 makes no sense unless u r having a football championship.

9 teams get u 16 games a year and 3 less teams to split the pie with.

I think that the MVC has to be proactive, because there be someone inevitably due to football. If the right schools are available, then they should take them. Just because they go to 12 doesn't mean they stay there. UNI and ISUr have talked about it. ISUb already plays a level up. MSU has football as well. These could all leave someday due to wanting to move up to FBS football.

Taking the right schools to plan for the future is the right move. But that would require planning and I don't trust Elgin to do that.

[SubGod22]

12 makes no sense unless u r having a football championship.

9 teams get u 16 games a year and 3 less teams to split the pie with.

12 can make plenty of sense if you find adds that strengthen the conference and give you more opportunities at bids. Plus, it can cut down on travel costs for the poor schools.

12 only makes sense if they add schools that show strength and/or potential with more money and the backing of the MVC. If we lost Creighton, would you be opposed to adding three of Belmont, Wright State, Murray State, NDSU, SDSU, South Dakota, ORU, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Denver, UIC, Detroit, NMSU, Valpo, Arlington? These are the schools I can remember people mentioning

Some are stronger now than others right now and a few could have potential based on where they're located. I'm not looking at their financials right now and that would obviously be a factor as we have to know if they're capable of investing in the basketball programs. But you could also gain access to Milwaukee, Dayton, Nashville, Chicago, Detroit and Dallas with some of these schools and that also can be a bonus.

RPIs the past few years, starting with where they are today this season. These are all schools from conferences we would see as weaker than ours. Average is in yellow, Top 50 finishes in red and top 100 in green.

Belmont - 18, 58, 51, 135, 124, 76, 112, 115, 197, 92 = 97.8 (Most of that in the A-Sun)
Murray St. - 113, 22, 117, 57, 149, 189, 181, 63, 97, 63 = 105.1 (Done in the OVC)
Wright St. - 149, 226, 124, 80, 93, 84, 73, 179, 170, 170 = 134.8
Detroit - 68, 127, 143, 167, 281, 287, 195, 177, 196, 110 = 175.1
Valpo - 85, 95, 71, 186, 260, 101, 167, 182, 187, 139 = 147.3
UIC - 122, 299, 291, 291, 166, 140, 162, 130, 148, 91 = 184
Green Bay - 156, 149, 171, 107, 71, 148, 173, 186, 123, 141 = 142.5
Milwaukee - 314, 124, 92, 130, 134, 180, 241, 52, 20, 73 = 136
NDSU - 64, 183, 238, 268, 87, 193, 160 = 170.4
SDSU - 66, 42, 183, 234, 283, 330, 327 = 209.3
South Dakota - 230, 291, 316, 216 = 263.25
NMSU - 75, 59, 139, 51, 117, 130, 69, 97, 310, 192 = 123.9 (Much better since leaving the Belt)
Denver - 108, 93, 244, 164, 226, 271, 335, 171, 83, 172 = 186.7 (Recently committed to investing in basketball)
Arlington - 153, 110, 272, 235, 187, 143, 255, 199, 255, 206 = 201.5 (Mostly stuck in Southland. Recently committed to basketball)
ORU - 106, 48, 131, 126, 142, 54, 89, 134, 50, 156 = 103.6

And to compare to two A10 schools most would take and consider an equal conference...
Dayton - 107, 81, 70, 54, 24, 27, 30, 71, 185, 101, 45 = 79.5 (Always been a fan)
SLU - 56, 31, 175, 87, 123, 137, 75, 101, 244, 59 = 108.8 (Elgin's favorite)

And now the MVC
Wichita - 41, 12, 60, 43, 158, 198, 100, 19, 53, 71 = 75.5
ISUb - 42, 125, 84, 88, 202, 124, 139, 158, 249, 229 = 144
UNI - 102, 72, 112, 17, 59, 131, 86, 30, 55, 67 = 73.1
ISU - 130, 99, 255, 76, 47, 37, 138, 233, 133, 193 = 134.1
E'ville - 137, 130, 136, 250, 96, 252, 133, 190, 254, 236 = 181.4
Drake - 151, 133, 217, 178, 162, 12, 114, 174, 194, 197 = 153.2
Bradley - 160, 264, 233, 105, 98, 104, 39, 32, 185, 154 = 137.4
SIU - 198, 253, 206, 170, 146, 60, 7, 31, 16, 33 = 112
HSU - 219, 122, 43, 90, 211, 123, 36, 24, 76, 100 = 104.4

And I know there's more to it than just RPI. Attendance figures really aren't all that sexy at most of these schools, but that could also change with a better conference and a little more success. We could just add one, but I have a feeling that when the time comes, they'll look into 12 to try to solidify the conference and give us a chance at more bids. Something to at least look into.

[SubGod22]

I think that the MVC has to be proactive, because there be someone inevitably due to football. If the right schools are available, then they should take them. Just because they go to 12 doesn't mean they stay there. UNI and ISUr have talked about it. ISUb already plays a level up. MSU has football as well. These could all leave someday due to wanting to move up to FBS football.

Taking the right schools to plan for the future is the right move. But that would require planning and I don't trust Elgin to do that.

I agree. And plus, I think you move to 12 so you can get what you feel are the better candidates now and not try to get them as more leave and the Valley looks weaker. Losing CU hurts, but the MVC still looks alright to candidates. But if you wait for another school to leave before adding then you risk looking weaker and not as attractive.

Flight risks include CU, obviously, WSU, UNI, ISU and HSU. Also talks of UE leaving. If you wait and say UNI and ISU both go to the MAC or something to upgrade football, which they've talked about, then you lose two of the stronger programs and you know others with options look to jump. However, if you go to 12 now, and one or two leave, you're still in good shape and then could look to stay at 10 or if there are options that are available at that point, you can go back to 12.