American Athletic Conference

[moshock]

I like it. We would just have to make sure that we had Amish refs. :nevreness:

[Aargh]

I'm fine with this as a separate thread. The "Conference Realignment" thread didn't really have anything that could directly affect WSU to the extent that this does. All it takes is for one FB team to make a deal and the BEast is GONE. If a BCS conference wants another team that's currently in the BEast, all they have to do is tell the team to vote to disband the league and they'll get an invite to another league the next day. That would be very attractive to any FB team that's still in the BEast. Plus, no exit fees. That leves the Catholic schools free to do something and it's apparent something is going on there.

If they invite CU, CU is gone in a heartbeat. WSU seems like a long shot to join a mostly Jesuit conference, but we are ranked (2 years in a row now) , we put 10K butts in seats, and we pay our coach $1.5 mill. We have what appears to be a stable program and a clearly committed athletic department. We fit the blueprint of the schools they would be looking at. We don't have a great TV market, but we're in the Top 25. Top 25 teams have an automatic TV market. Look at our program nd our recruits, and there's reason to believe we could be Top 25 (or near) for the next several years.

[CBB_Fan]

I'm fine with this as a separate thread. The "Conference Realignment" thread didn't really have anything that could directly affect WSU to the extent that this does. All it takes is for one FB team to make a deal and the BEast is GONE. If a BCS conference wants another team that's currently in the BEast, all they have to do is tell the team to vote to disband the league and they'll get an invite to another league the next day. That would be very attractive to any FB team that's still in the BEast. Plus, no exit fees. That leves the Catholic schools free to do something and it's apparent something is going on there.

If they invite CU, CU is gone in a heartbeat. WSU seems like a long shot to join a mostly Jesuit conference, but we are ranked (2 years in a row now) , we put 10K butts in seats, and we pay our coach $1.5 mill. We have what appears to be a stable program and a clearly committed athletic department. We fit the blueprint of the schools they would be looking at. We don't have a great TV market, but we're in the Top 25. Top 25 teams have an automatic TV market. Look at our program nd our recruits, and there's reason to believe we could be Top 25 (or near) for the next several years.

From what I have seen, the Catholic schools in the Big East would "definitely" try and get Creighton, Saint Louis, Dayton, Xavier, and Butler. That should make total sense. A lot of private basketball schools with only one non-Jesuit school in Butler (who makes up for it by those two national title game appearances). They may be content with that, but it seems like they also feel that 16 teams is a good target number.

The other 4 teams they would like to have are Memphis, Temple, Cincinnati and UConn. The big problem is football. Memphis and Temple may both be fine with finding another home for their football programs, but Cincinnati and UConn would constantly be chewing at the bit to try and become a full member of another conference. The latter two may not even want to join such a basketball-centric league.

Basically, what Wichita State should hope for is that:

1. The Catholic schools break up the Big East (and retain the brand name)
2. After acquiring the obvious targets, that the league decides to expand
3. At least Cincinnati and UConn decide to go elsewhere because of football, and potentially Memphis and Temple as well

The ideal for Wichita State a 12-13 team Catholic version of the Big East, looking to get to 16 teams. We would then be a top target because of we do not play football and have a good basketball program. In this case, Memphis and Temple would replace Duquesne and Richmond in my Eastern division, and we would get in place of Cincinnati while VCU would take the place of UConn. When I made my divisions, I was looking only at teams that did not play D1 football because it would make sense for the league, but I think that Memphis and Temple are small-time enough to find a home for their football teams in another conference.

[wufan]

I see Butler as the first long shot for the Catholic league, but they will probably want 12 and Butler would fit the bill if they wanted one non-Jesuit school, but I don't see that. If they add public schools, WSU and VCU make sense, but I'd say less than a 5% chance of getting an invite if the league goes to 14 or more.

[CBB_Fan]

I see Butler as the first long shot for the Catholic league, but they will probably want 12 and Butler would fit the bill if they wanted one non-Jesuit school, but I don't see that. If they add public schools, WSU and VCU make sense, but I'd say less than a 5% chance of getting an invite if the league goes to 14 or more.

Butler fits this league better than Memphis, Cincinnati, or UConn (all of those are public universities with football programs). But it all depends on the priorities, for both Butler and Wichita State. The question is where they rank the following:

Private versus Public
Jesuit versus Secular
Basketball-only versus Basketball and Football
Regional fit versus national prominence
Dependable stability versus Big East tradition

We hope that they care most about basketball and keeping a stable conference and less about other factors. If the Catholic thing is the largest issue, we won't get an invite. If being a private school is a big issue, we won't get an invite. If they want programs that are very close, we won't get an invite. If they value keeping the two old Big East schools and Memphis/Temple instead of simply staying with basketball schools, we won't get an invite.

However, they simply want to set up a very good basketball-only league that combines historically good Big East teams with the best available non-football schools, we should have a chance, especially if the athletic department makes this priority #1. I think you have the percentages right though; we are not a high priority target for this new league. We need to rely on a lot of different parties with different interests all working in a way that makes the pieces fall into the perfect shape for us.

But still, priority #1. We absolutely do not want to be stuck in the MVC without Creighton. That is a league that is about as bad as the Patriot League or Sun Belt Conference; not close to a top 10 conference and definitely not a conference that will give us any chance for an at-large bid. Unless you want to dwell in the cellars forever, hoping every year to win the MVC tournament and get invited to the tournament (and never getting better than a 12 seed at that). Our prospects are bleak if we don't get in this league and Creighton does, and so we should be haggling our position every night to those schools to convince them to let us join the league.

[Steeleshocker]

Butler fits this league better than Memphis, Cincinnati, or UConn (all of those are public universities with football programs). But it all depends on the priorities, for both Butler and Wichita State. The question is where they rank the following:

Private versus Public
Jesuit versus Secular
Basketball-only versus Basketball and Football
Regional fit versus national prominence
Dependable stability versus Big East tradition

We hope that they care most about basketball and keeping a stable conference and less about other factors. If the Catholic thing is the largest issue, we won't get an invite. If being a private school is a big issue, we won't get an invite. If they want programs that are very close, we won't get an invite. If they value keeping the two old Big East schools and Memphis/Temple instead of simply staying with basketball schools, we won't get an invite.

However, they simply want to set up a very good basketball-only league that combines historically good Big East teams with the best available non-football schools, we should have a chance, especially if the athletic department makes this priority #1. I think you have the percentages right though; we are not a high priority target for this new league. We need to rely on a lot of different parties with different interests all working in a way that makes the pieces fall into the perfect shape for us.

But still, priority #1. We absolutely do not want to be stuck in the MVC without Creighton. That is a league that is about as bad as the Patriot League or Sun Belt Conference; not close to a top 10 conference and definitely not a conference that will give us any chance for an at-large bid. Unless you want to dwell in the cellars forever, hoping every year to win the MVC tournament and get invited to the tournament (and never getting better than a 12 seed at that). Our prospects are bleak if we don't get in this league and Creighton does, and so we should be haggling our position every night to those schools to convince them to let us join the league.

The best thing we can do at this point is work with Creighton to present ourselves as a unified front that would be very beneficial to the new conference. Individually we aren't the best looking, but paired with CU I think it gets more manageable. Also, while Wichita is not a major media market, I'm sure having us and SLU would mean significant interest in the KC area. My two cents. Start working with Creighton and then approach the Catholic schools.

[KC Shox]

The MVC needs to start poaching and soon. My recommendation, get Valpo and Illinois-Chicago for starters.

[SubGod22]

Seriously? Valpo and yet another Illinois team? We need strength, not numbers. I don't see either as having the ability to compete in the upper half consistently. Valpo is just another Evansville.

[Dan]

Any school with football is out simply due to the opportunities with BCS football revenue sharing.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

We need to look at this differently than we are. Marquette, DePaul, St. John's, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall and Villanova

We need to look at TV Markets. Money is the key to survival, and here are the numbers that matter:

Obviously the 7 have their markets, and the name to go with them:

St. John's - Queens, NY (#1)
Seton Hall - New York, NY (#1)
DePaul - Chicago, IL (#3)
Villanova - Philadelphia, PA (#4)
Georgetown - Washington, DC (#9)
Marquette - Milwaukee, WI (#35)
Providence - Providence, RI (#52)

Teams mentioned as possible affiliates and others I think should be considered:

St. Joseph's - Philadelphia, PA (#4)
UMASS - Boston, MA (#7)
Detroit - Detroit, MI (#11)
Cleveland St. - Cleveland, OH (#17)
Denver - Denver, CO (#18)
St. Louis - St. Louis (#21)
Duquesne - Pittsburgh, PA (#23)
Butler - Indianapolis, IN (#25)
Xavier - Cincinnati, OH (#34)
VCU - Richmond, VA (#58)
Dayton - Dayton, OH (#64)
Wichita St. - Wichita, KS (#69)
Gonzaga - Spokane, WA (#75)
Creighton - Omaha, NE (#76)

I would dig into breaking this down on average between TV Market, avg RPI the past 5 years, and athletic budget. I wonder if we could make up some of the difference in TV market size.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Any school with football is out simply due to the opportunities with BCS football revenue sharing.

Villanova and Georgetown would be out then. Both play FCS football Marquette has club football, with aspirations to move to FCS.

[ShockTalk]

Villanova and Georgetown would be out then. Both play FCS football Marquette has club football, with aspirations to move to FCS.

UMass plays FBS football and is looking to further it. Besides the 3 you mentioned, Duquesne, Richmond, Butler, and Dayton play FCS football (although the last two play in the Pioneer conference).

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

UMass plays FBS football and is looking to further it. Besides the 3 you mentioned, Duquesne, Richmond, Butler, and Dayton play FCS football (although the last two play in the Pioneer conference).

My point was that without Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette, it is not near as an attractive league.

[CBB_Fan]

Villanova and Georgetown would be out then. Both play FCS football Marquette has club football, with aspirations to move to FCS.

The important thing is that this league would not have FBS football. FCS probably would be handled similarly to the Valley (Big East football conference that is separate from the Big East conference, and includes some schools not in the other conference).

And in reply to an earlier post, I would say that the best thing we could do is manage to become a package deal with Creighton. I don't think the league would have a problem with us joining, but we would be very low priority otherwise. Creighton is probably one of the safest bets to join this league, and I think that if we could join forces with Creighton the so-called Catholic League would say

"Alright, they are a good enough basketball school to join"

instead of

"Unfortunately, we have other priorities"

Essentially, they would probably rather have Creighton and us then try and get two new schools. Creighton, Xavier, Saint Louis, and probably Dayton are simply no-brainer additions to this league. The question is:

What does Creighton have to gain by pairing with us? Sure, it would be great for us if we managed to become a package deal, but Creighton doesn't necessarily care if they play Wichita State every year, any rivalry aside. We need to come up with a deal that is advantageous to both parties. I'm not sure what we have to offer, other than the continuation of our rivalry and possibly cash concessions. Perhaps something more academic is necessary, some collaborative research effort between the two universities. I don't know, but we have to have something.

[SubGod22]

We need to look at this differently than we are. Marquette, DePaul, St. John's, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall and Villanova

We need to look at TV Markets. Money is the key to survival, and here are the numbers that matter:

Obviously the 7 have their markets, and the name to go with them:

St. John's - Queens, NY (#1)
Seton Hall - New York, NY (#1)
DePaul - Chicago, IL (#3)
Villanova - Philadelphia, PA (#4)
Georgetown - Washington, DC (#9)
Marquette - Milwaukee, WI (#35)
Providence - Providence, RI (#52)

Teams mentioned as possible affiliates and others I think should be considered:

St. Joseph's - Philadelphia, PA (#4)
UMASS - Boston, MA (#7)
Detroit - Detroit, MI (#11)
Cleveland St. - Cleveland, OH (#17)
Denver - Denver, CO (#18)
St. Louis - St. Louis (#21)
Duquesne - Pittsburgh, PA (#23)
Butler - Indianapolis, IN (#25)
Xavier - Cincinnati, OH (#34)
VCU - Richmond, VA (#58)
Dayton - Dayton, OH (#64)
Wichita St. - Wichita, KS (#69)
Gonzaga - Spokane, WA (#75)
Creighton - Omaha, NE (#76)

I would dig into breaking this down on average between TV Market, avg RPI the past 5 years, and athletic budget. I wonder if we could make up some of the difference in TV market size.

And if the RPIs or whatever dont work, you don't need more than one team in a market. But here are the RPI averages for teams you mentioned and the two that KC mentioned earlier over the last 5 years:

Saint John's - 114
Seton Hall - 88.8
DePaul - 201.2
Villanova - 44.8
Georgetown - 20.2
Marquette - 35.2
Providence - 126.6
Saint Joeseph's - 114.4
UMass - 120.6 (I believe they already play FBS football in the MAC or will next year)
Detroit - 201 (But trending up all 5 years)
Cleveland St. - 81.8
Denver - 199.6
Saint Louis - 110.6
Duquesne - 107
Wichita - 94.2 (last 3 are 38.3)
Gonzaga - 35.4
Dayton - 52.4
Xavier - 21.6
Butler - 40.6
VCU - 52
Creighton - 70
Valpo - 142.6
UIC - 237.4 (gotten worse each of the last 5)