American Athletic Conference

[pinstripers]

It has to make some geographic sense. Not for men's basketball, but for the travel considerations of all the other sports. Frequent bus rides to the east coast for WBB, BSB, VB and SB won't be very fun.

bowling, golf, etc, etc

[RoyalShock]

bowling, golf, etc, etc

Unless I'm mistaken, the individual sports don't play a traditional conference schedule. They go to mostly regional (a few national) events, then have a conference meet/tournament. So I don't think they would be affected as much.

[ciaomichael]

Unless I'm mistaken, the individual sports don't play a traditional conference schedule. They go to mostly regional (a few national) events, then have a conference meet/tournament. So I don't think they would be affected as much.

Golf and tennis are considered team sports and played in the MVC. Also, don't forget cross country and indoor and outdoor track. In all, WSU participates in 7 mens' sports and 8 womens' sports in the MVC.

[MoValley John]

Unless I'm mistaken, the individual sports don't play a traditional conference schedule. They go to mostly regional (a few national) events, then have a conference meet/tournament. So I don't think they would be affected as much.

That is correct. Team sports are the only sports that would incur much of any increases in travel costs. All of the individual sports would only have an increase for the added travel to the conference meet.

[Royalno5]

I often wonder if Armstrong and Perkins realized all the future repercussions their decision would cause. I think maybe they took the easy way out.

[Shocker1976]

I don't know any more than you do, 1976, which is to say that neither of us has a clue. But I'd be stunned if the New Big East has any interest in state schools or football schools, especially considering that football was the source of the old incarnation's demise. Your list contains two plausible NBE candidates, St. Louis and Dayton, and both are in a happy position: welcome in the not-so-Atlantic 10 (St. Louis is on the Pacific side of the Mississippi River, for heaven's sake) and desirable to the NBE because they match the profile so nicely.

You are correct, I am as clueless as you regards BE's expansion plans. I was just offering a hypothetical expansion model to a 16 team BE. I think they will have to expand if they want to achieve the same BB status that the original BE enjoyed. Their current membership is sorely lacking in my opinion and the teams I listed would dramatically improve the likelihood of multiple invitations to the Big Dance (don't know if they could capture 7 invitations but who knows until they expand and play a full season).

I would like for the Shockers to join the BE but have concluded that the Shockers have no real options for joining a better BB conference that the MVC.

FYI VCU and George Washington do not have football teams. The VCU AD in February 2013 stated that "football is far in the future" and maybe never; while George Washington last fielded a football team in 1966. A friend of mine who lives in Amherst has informed me that given the recent firing of the U Mass coach due to his two year record of 2-22 U Mass is openly debating killing the football program. IMO should the university so decide, an invitation to join the BE will quickly follow such a decision. Given Memphis' lack of success (3-9 in 2013) with paltry attendance, I wonder how much money they lose each year supporting a football team.

[ShockTalk]

You are correct, I am as clueless as you regards BE's expansion plans. I was just offering a hypothetical expansion model to a 16 team BE. I think they will have to expand if they want to achieve the same BB status that the original BE enjoyed. Their current membership is sorely lacking in my opinion and the teams I listed would dramatically improve the likelihood of multiple invitations to the Big Dance (don't know if they could capture 7 invitations but who knows until they expand and play a full season).

I would like for the Shockers to join the BE but have concluded that the Shockers have no real options for joining a better BB conference that the MVC.

FYI VCU and George Washington do not have football teams. The VCU AD in February 2013 stated that "football is far in the future" and maybe never; while George Washington last fielded a football team in 1966. A friend of mine who lives in Amherst has informed me that given the recent firing of the U Mass coach due to his two year record of 2-22 U Mass is openly debating killing the football program. IMO should the university so decide, an invitation to join the BE will quickly follow such a decision. Given Memphis' lack of success (3-9 in 2013) with paltry attendance, I wonder how much money they lose each year supporting a football team.

I believe Memphis has zero interest in giving up football and they, too, are a public university.

UMass, also a public university, has had almost no success in basketball outside of the Calipari years. All NCAA appearances, but one(1962), were between 1992-1998.

While George Washington U is a private school, it has made exactly 1 S16 and 5 NCAA appearances with only 2 since 1961.

As I have stated, if the Big East expands to 14 or 16 schools, they will add as many quality basketball programs as possible to get them as many invitations to Dance each year as possible. They will have no interest in dividing up a few invites among 14 to 16 teams.

I believe St. Louis and Dayton would be slam dunks as the first ones added. That will give them more presence in their western reach, but still would have CU as an outlier. Another "western" school, closer to Omaha, would make sense if they go to 14/16 teams.

I'm all ears if anyone can make a good case for another 2 to 4 teams that are private institutions, with no football, that have strong enough basketball programs to make the Big East feel they would make the Dance on a fairly regular basis.

I feel VCU, another public school, and WSU fills the bill the best with the exception of not being private. WSU would also be a strong school in respects to all other sports, especially baseball, volleyball, and possibly women's basketball, the next 3 most visible sports.

[pogo]

I like the big E concept of a basketball conference. As others have so aptly put it I don't see WSU being invited unless they expand and divide in to an east/west format. This at least makes sense in travel.

[DUShock]

I often wonder if Armstrong and Perkins realized all the future repercussions their decision would cause. I think maybe they took the easy way out.

both are oxygen thieves, well, only one is currently thieving O's.

[MadDog]

How about we have the MVC and A10 merge, then jettison the dead weight from both conferences. We could then have one truly national conference that would compete with the AAC, NBE, and Mountain West. I would think it would also clear the cut line we don't want to be on the wrong side of when they go to 1AA basketball.

[RoyalShock]

Golf and tennis are considered team sports and played in the MVC. Also, don't forget cross country and indoor and outdoor track. In all, WSU participates in 7 mens' sports and 8 womens' sports in the MVC.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Yes, those teams play in the MVC. But their regular season schedules aren't based around events at league schools. Take the Men's Cross Country schedule, for example. Only one event at a Valley school before the conference meet.

A few others:

Men's Golf - No regular season events at Valley schools.
Men's Tennis - Two regular season events at Valley schools.
Women's Track and Field - No regular season events at Valley schools.

[WSUwatcher]

Well, ShockTalk, what makes you think the NBE cares all that much about teams reaching the NCAA on "a fairly regular basis?" So far this century that hasn't been the case for DePaul, St. John's, Providenmce, or Seton Hall, which is almost half the league.

So if they should actually want to expand, and if for some reason they wanted to go beyond 12 with St. Louis and Dayton being the obvious choices (both of whom have also missed the NCAA a good bit more often than not this century), how about Bradley? They only have the one 21st century NCAA appearance (in 2006), but it was a good one, and if nothing else they might give DePaul a chance to look down at someone else from Illinois -- and how often has DePaul been looking down at anyone since joining the Big East?

[Shocker1976]

I believe Memphis has zero interest in giving up football and they, too, are a public university.

UMass, also a public university, has had almost no success in basketball outside of the Calipari years. All NCAA appearances, but one(1962), were between 1992-1998.

While George Washington U is a private school, it has made exactly 1 S16 and 5 NCAA appearances with only 2 since 1961.

As I have stated, if the Big East expands to 14 or 16 schools, they will add as many quality basketball programs as possible to get them as many invitations to Dance each year as possible. They will have no interest in dividing up a few invites among 14 to 16 teams.

I believe St. Louis and Dayton would be slam dunks as the first ones added. That will give them more presence in their western reach, but still would have CU as an outlier. Another "western" school, closer to Omaha, would make sense if they go to 14/16 teams.

I'm all ears if anyone can make a good case for another 2 to 4 teams that are private institutions, with no football, that have strong enough basketball programs to make the Big East feel they would make the Dance on a fairly regular basis.

I feel VCU, another public school, and WSU fills the bill the best with the exception of not being private. WSU would also be a strong school in respects to all other sports, especially baseball, volleyball, and possibly women's basketball, the next 3 most visible sports.

You can believe what you want about Memphis' desire to give up football, while I will recognize such an action is a possibility.

Were you aware of U Mass record this year (17-3) when you posted that have had "almost no success since the Calipari years"? The following is for you edification

Atlantic 10 Standings

TEAM	CONF	OVERALL
Saint Louis	6-0	19-2
George Washington	5-1	17-3
Virginia Commonwealth	5-1	17-4
Massachusetts	4-2	17-3
Saint Joseph's	4-2	14-6
Richmond	4-2	14-7
La Salle	3-3	11-9
St. Bonaventure	3-4	13-8
Duquesne	2-4	10-9
Rhode Island	2-4	11-10
Dayton	1-5	13-8
Fordham	1-6	8-12
George Mason	0-6	7-13

The NBE's current membership was driven IMO by its desire and need to return to its origins; now that they are again a BB focused conference, to return to their former status in the NCAA BB world they will need to look beyond private catholic universities if they want to add strong BB only schools to their conference. If Wichita was a better fit geographically I am confident discussions would be on-going behind Bardo's closed doors.

[Shocker1976]

I believe Memphis has zero interest in giving up football and they, too, are a public university.

UMass, also a public university, has had almost no success in basketball outside of the Calipari years. All NCAA appearances, but one(1962), were between 1992-1998.

While George Washington U is a private school, it has made exactly 1 S16 and 5 NCAA appearances with only 2 since 1961.

As I have stated, if the Big East expands to 14 or 16 schools, they will add as many quality basketball programs as possible to get them as many invitations to Dance each year as possible. They will have no interest in dividing up a few invites among 14 to 16 teams.

I believe St. Louis and Dayton would be slam dunks as the first ones added. That will give them more presence in their western reach, but still would have CU as an outlier. Another "western" school, closer to Omaha, would make sense if they go to 14/16 teams.

I'm all ears if anyone can make a good case for another 2 to 4 teams that are private institutions, with no football, that have strong enough basketball programs to make the Big East feel they would make the Dance on a fairly regular basis.

I feel VCU, another public school, and WSU fills the bill the best with the exception of not being private. WSU would also be a strong school in respects to all other sports, especially baseball, volleyball, and possibly women's basketball, the next 3 most visible sports.

You may find parallels between Derek Kellogg's 6 years at U Mass and 3G's years at WSU

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/12/six_years_in_umass_basketball.html

[ShockTalk]

Well, ShockTalk, what makes you think the NBE cares all that much about teams reaching the NCAA on "a fairly regular basis?" So far this century that hasn't been the case for DePaul, St. John's, Providenmce, or Seton Hall, which is almost half the league.

So if they should actually want to expand, and if for some reason they wanted to go beyond 12 with St. Louis and Dayton being the obvious choices (both of whom have also missed the NCAA a good bit more often than not this century), how about Bradley? They only have the one 21st century NCAA appearance (in 2006), but it was a good one, and if nothing else they might give DePaul a chance to look down at someone else from Illinois -- and how often has DePaul been looking down at anyone since joining the Big East?

Three of those Big East schools were part of the original Big East and all are private, catholic institutions and key to forming the new Big East. Dayton and St. Louis are the next best private, non-football (non-scholarship), catholic schools available to the conference. I don't know that they will add them. It's just pretty much the general consensus. Any additions beyond those 2 schools will most likely be ones that will add to the money pot and be non-football. Bradley is private, but has not had recent success to make one think they're going to add to the $s. 1 S16 in nearly 60 years.

You can believe what you want about Memphis' desire to give up football, while I will recognize such an action is a possibility.

Were you aware of U Mass record this year (17-3) when you posted that have had "almost no success since the Calipari years"? The following is for you edification

Atlantic 10 Standings

TEAM	CONF	OVERALL
Saint Louis	6-0	19-2
George Washington	5-1	17-3
Virginia Commonwealth	5-1	17-4
Massachusetts	4-2	17-3
Saint Joseph's	4-2	14-6
Richmond	4-2	14-7
La Salle	3-3	11-9
St. Bonaventure	3-4	13-8
Duquesne	2-4	10-9
Rhode Island	2-4	11-10
Dayton	1-5	13-8
Fordham	1-6	8-12
George Mason	0-6	7-13

The NBE's current membership was driven IMO by its desire and need to return to its origins; now that they are again a BB focused conference, to return to their former status in the NCAA BB world they will need to look beyond private catholic universities if they want to add strong BB only schools to their conference. If Wichita was a better fit geographically I am confident discussions would be on-going behind Bardo's closed doors.

Yes, I'm very aware of UMass. I also noticed they are in a 3 way tie for 4th place. They will need to do better than this the rest of their conference schedule. I will also consider them as contenders for the Big East once they do get rid of football, but it wasn't that long ago (a couple years ago, I believe) they were hoping for an invite to a football conference. I do agree with your statement above that I've highlighted.

You may find parallels between Derek Kellogg's 6 years at U Mass and 3G's years at WSU
http://www.masslive.com/sports/index...asketball.html

Kellogg is doing a great job there, but the only comparison to Marshall and WSU at this point is that they are upward trending. Unless they fold, this will be their 1st NCAA under him.