Legalize marijuana

[MoValley John]

You didn't mention alcohol's negative effects. I am not playing the moral equivalent rhetorical game.

I haven't smoked pot in 30 years. Please. This is not what you are saying, but the negatives seem less than Mary j than alcohol. Maybe I am missing something obvious.

You missed my point. Alcohol can be very dangerous, so can pot. Comparing and contrasting which is worse is pointless. In my wife's time as a lead trauma nurse, she saw many corpses roll through reeking of weed. She saw more corpses roll through smelling of gin. Both cause havoc. To argue that pot should be legal because its less dangerous than booze is a failed argument, pot is still dangerous.

We could talk cirrhosis, why? We could talk drunken violence. Again, why? Liquor is legal and has been for 90 years. That isn't changing. Pot is illegal. Has been for 90 years. The argument shouldn't be booze vs. pot, it should be pot should be legal because as a consenting adult, capable of making decisions, I should be able to smoke. Or drop a few gummies. Its my life. Self determination.

[Shockm]

You missed my point. Alcohol can be very dangerous, so can pot. Comparing and contrasting which is worse is pointless. In my wife's time as a lead trauma nurse, she saw many corpses roll through reeking of weed. She saw more corpses roll through smelling of gin. Both cause havoc. To argue that pot should be legal because its less dangerous than booze is a failed argument, pot is still dangerous.

We could talk cirrhosis, why? We could talk drunken violence. Again, why? Liquor is legal and has been for 90 years. That isn't changing. Pot is illegal. Has been for 90 years. The argument shouldn't be booze vs. pot, it should be pot should be legal because as a consenting adult, capable of making decisions, I should be able to smoke. Or drop a few gummies. Its my life. Self determination.

Yes. Parents of teen and pre-teen kids who are heavy alcohol and heavy marijuana users, and maybe even use in their home bedrooms should be concerned. Unfortunately, these kids are probably heavy users of other, even more illicit and dangerous drugs, and other high risk behaviors that are more harmful when done with a carefree manner at pre-teen ages. Additionally, a good amount of parents of kids who do dangerous, high risk behaviors often don’t know what their kids are doing most of the time.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Zero. But I also know zero responsible alcoholics. I know plenty of responsible moderate smokers and drinkers.

Excellent response. I made a weak generalization. There are high-functioning alcoholics, but time is not on their side. Do you know any high-functioning stoners?

Serious question: What has pot done to your brain? Have you or others noticed a change (after you come down) in your thinking during periods when you have used heavier than normal? Asked another way: If you were a high-strung individual who relied on the speed, creativity, and focus of your mind to eat, do you think recreational use could have a cumulative deleterious effect on those aspects over time?

I am a virgin to the ways of the skunk. The only controlled substances I have experience with - and it is minimal - are Xanax and SSRI's.

[wufan]

You didn't mention alcohol's negative effects. I am not playing the moral equivalent rhetorical game.

I haven't smoked pot in 30 years. Please. This is not what you are saying, but the negatives seem less than Mary j than alcohol. Maybe I am missing something obvious.

Opium is harvested from a plant just like marijuana.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cultivation-of-the-poppy-and-manufa/

Heroin and other opioids are processed. So what?

CBD oil is processed. Leather is processed. Cheese is processed. Is marijuana more healthy than cheese because it isn’t processed?

[BOBB]

Excellent response. I made a weak generalization. There are high-functioning alcoholics, but time is not on their side. Do you know any high-functioning stoners?

Serious question: What has pot done to your brain? Have you or others noticed a change (after you come down) in your thinking during periods when you have used heavier than normal? Asked another way: If you were a high-strung individual who relied on the speed, creativity, and focus of your mind to eat, do you think recreational use could have a cumulative deleterious effect on those aspects over time?

I am a virgin to the ways of the skunk. The only controlled substances I have experience with - and it is minimal - are Xanax and SSRI's.

As with all but the outliers I have had peaks and troughs of productivity over my five decades on this planet. I have found no correlation to the amount I was smoking and those variations. I can usually find correlation, but not necessarily causation, of shitty diet, lack of exercise and more drinking with reduced output. Note that my maximum smoking would be measured 4-5 days a week and I've gone a couple of years here and there without.

Taken xanax a couple of times. That is strong medicine.

[C0|dB|00ded]

As with all but the outliers I have had peaks and troughs of productivity over my five decades on this planet. I have found no correlation to the amount I was smoking and those variations. I can usually find correlation, but not necessarily causation, of shitty diet, lack of exercise and more drinking with reduced output. Note that my maximum smoking would be measured 4-5 days a week and I've gone a couple of years here and there without.

Taken xanax a couple of times. That is strong medicine.

Indeed. I was on a short regimen almost 20 years ago and I was taking half of the minimum dose. It felt like my body was covered in cotton. I said to myself, if this is what it feels like to be completely devoid of anxiety, I've really been living wrong lol. After a few days I noticed my speech slurring and never took it again. I am seriously medication averse. Probably why I never did anything but drink. I really don't like inhaling **** either. The idea of micro-dosing mushrooms has me intrigued. I would like to use something less brain-killing than alcohol to catch a buzz before going out to socialize. Wish somebody could invent the Scotch/Bourbon buzz and put it in a pill.

[ABC]

You missed my point. Alcohol can be very dangerous, so can pot. Comparing and contrasting which is worse is pointless. In my wife's time as a lead trauma nurse, she saw many corpses roll through reeking of weed. She saw more corpses roll through smelling of gin. Both cause havoc. To argue that pot should be legal because its less dangerous than booze is a failed argument, pot is still dangerous.

We could talk cirrhosis, why? We could talk drunken violence. Again, why? Liquor is legal and has been for 90 years. That isn't changing. Pot is illegal. Has been for 90 years. The argument shouldn't be booze vs. pot, it should be pot should be legal because as a consenting adult, capable of making decisions, I should be able to smoke. Or drop a few gummies. Its my life. Self determination.

I think we are saying the same thing. I agree with your points. And I agree that marijuana certainly isn't a health drug.

[ABC]

Opium is harvested from a plant just like marijuana.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cultivation-of-the-poppy-and-manufa/

Heroin and other opioids are processed. So what?

CBD oil is processed. Leather is processed. Cheese is processed. Is marijuana more healthy than cheese because it isn’t processed?

My point is that marijuana as used is simply a plant without any processing. Opium, heroin, opioids and morphine come from the poppy seed but there is quite a bit of processing. That makes it quite a bit different in my view.

As I stated earlier, the discussion is kind of mute as legalization is happening and will continue to expand.

[Shockm]

Moderate use of either Pot or alcohol isn't dangerous (1-2 drinks a day and I'm not for sure what is moderate for Pot). People who are more easily addicted and have anxiety difficulties are a different concern.

My concern is that for society, we need more extensive studies of Pot. We know that alcohol is not good for people who abuse it. Pregnant adult women know that alcohol isn't good for their babies. Supposedly, tobacco isn't bad for pre-born babies which I question, but that is another subject. However, we don't have good information on what happens to the brain of pre-25 adults (and what happens to women who are pregnant and their pre-born babies) who use Pot and they need to know if they are losing (with IQ loss) their ability to make decisions, problem solve, etc I know Psychologists who have tested and told aging people who have aged, and lost IQ (down to 80) due to mini strokes, not to drive anymore because they are subject to accidents, so the same could happen to a person who loses IQ down to 80 because of Pot usage. Do adult users lose IQ and can't gain it back? Do adult users harm their babies? These are questions that need to be answered.

Liberty to the adult Pot user is important, but we also need to look out for the other people who are innocent in society.

[wufan]

My point is that marijuana as used is simply a plant without any processing. Opium, heroin, opioids and morphine come from the poppy seed but there is quite a bit of processing. That makes it quite a bit different in my view.

As I stated earlier, the discussion is kind of mute as legalization is happening and will continue to expand.

Did you read the article? Opium isn’t processed. Opioids such as heroin, morphine, hydromorphone, Demerol, Dilauded, Oxycotton, Codein, Fentanyl, etc are processed. Opium IS NOT PROCESSED.

I can make heroin from morphine or hydromorphone from morphine, or morphine from heroin, or any of the above from opium, but I can’t make opium from morphine or dilaudid, etc. Opium is the unprocessed smokable latex produced from poppies.

[MoValley John]

My point is that marijuana as used is simply a plant without any processing. Opium, heroin, opioids and morphine come from the poppy seed but there is quite a bit of processing. That makes it quite a bit different in my view.

As I stated earlier, the discussion is kind of mute as legalization is happening and will continue to expand.

To "process" opium, all that is done is the bud is sliced and the opium oozes out and is collected. Certainly less work than drying, seeding and everything else for cannibus. Opium may be the simplest drug derived from a plant. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and is also pretty much straight from the plant. You can simply chew coca leaves and get high.

All of the further processing of poppy and coca into illicit drugs no different than extracting the THC from pot to make gummies. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by arguing the "plant" form of marijuana vs. other illicit substances. Is it some sort of herbal is better, or more natural is better stance? Because A: Marijuana is not more herbal than poppy or coca, and B: Its not more natural, either. Pure morphine and pure cocaine are about as simple processed plant based materials as can be found.

If herbal and plant based is good, I'm headed to the closest opium den I can find.

[MoValley John]

Did you read the article? Opium isn’t processed. Opioids such as heroin, morphine, hydromorphone, Demerol, Dilauded, Oxycotton, Codein, Fentanyl, etc are processed. Opium IS NOT PROCESSED.

I can make heroin from morphine or hydromorphone from morphine, or morphine from heroin, or any of the above from opium, but I can’t make opium from morphine or dilaudid, etc. Opium is the unprocessed smokable latex produced from poppies.

I was typing my response at the same time. I'm really confused by the whole basis of his "pot is a plant" stance.

[MoValley John]

Does everyone know that alcohol is natural? If you eat fresh fruit, you are consuming trace amounts of alcohol. So if pot is good because it comes from a plant, alcohol is good because..... same argument.

Great read on "organic" alcohol.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170222-our-ancestors-were-drinking-alcohol-before-they-were-human

[ABC]

Fair points by many on poppy seeds and not much being processed etc. Seems to more there is more going on with turning poppy seeds in to opium et al than pot. And yes, I read the article. Opium is "manufactured" - pot is not. That seems like that makes my point, does it not?

But maybe I might be slicing it kind of thin. But I guess I go back to the point that pot is a plant.

[ABC]

Does everyone know that alcohol is natural? If you eat fresh fruit, you are consuming trace amounts of alcohol. So if pot is good because it comes from a plant, alcohol is good because..... same argument.

Great read on "organic" alcohol.
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170...hey-were-human

I see what you are saying, but it seems not exactly the same thing. Haven't you ever watched M*A*S*H?