Trump

[jdshock]

Not all that passionate about this story, just very surprised that any liberal would be stupid enough to chime in when the facts of the story were proven to be completely falsified by the left.

Well I guess I was wrong, but I did expect you to chime in. And here we are...

So I ask you this, how do you defend the Sunday morning narrative?

I didn't.

How do you defend the offer of a blow job for anyone that will punch a 16 year-old in the face?

I didn't.

How do you defend racist, homophobic taunts being hurled at teenagers?

I didn't. Though, to be clear, I also have never seen racist or homophobic taunts being hurled at the teenagers on the part of the Native Americans. Totally possible that I missed that. I watched VERY little of the 2+ hour video.

But you, a grown ass man, have the balls to criticize a group of kids that were thrown into a shitstorm. A shitstorm most adults couldn't navigate. Really?

Nope. Just saying Wufan was exaggerating the explanation. Look, if you're right on a topic, you don't have to misstate the underlying facts. Wufan said the media narrative was the "opposite" of what was true. And then he provided this long explanation that made it look like the kids sat there silently, being berated, before they just drummed up some "school cheers." My point is that just because the immediate reaction was wrong, we shouldn't swing the pendulum equally far the other way. It is not demonstrably, objectively true that the guy with the drum was trying to "stand in solidarity" with the first group of guys. We don't know that. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

Relax. I know you love to come on here and say "Just. Stop." (one of Doc's go-to's as well, actually). But it doesn't do anything to add to the discussion. If we want to take a lesson from a knee jerk reaction to a 2 minute clip, the lesson shouldn't be "OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING THE MEDIA HAS EVER TOLD US IS WRONG. OBVIOUSLY WE SHOULD JUST BELIEVE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS."

The teenagers didn't deserve to be treated the way they were treated at the beginning of the video, and they didn't deserve the treatment they got in the media right away after the event. I also think they totally came across as turds, so I'm probably not going to act like they were 100% innocent bystanders. If you can show me that the Colonels regularly use the Tomahawk Chop to support their team at their football games, I will immediately rescind my statement to Wufan (though, I'll be a little disheartened about the intelligence displayed by the school as a whole). Until then, it sure seems like the race of the Native Americans played a role in the behavior and chants chosen by the teenagers.

[MoValley John]

The proper response from you would be to ignore the story and hope it dies. You couldn't. And as an attorney, you know that when you question the actions and behavior of the youths, you open up the examination of all parties. You can't condemn the actions of the kids without questioning the actions of everyone else. Since you thought it was wise to question the youths, you must defend the actions of others.

My guess, and no I can't prove it, is as an adult if you were thrown into a similar situation as these kids, you would do much worse than a tomahawk chop. I hope you are never thrown into such an environment. You shouldn't be questioning the responses from 16 year-olds, when confronted by racial, ethnic and homophobic taunts from a mob of ADULTS.

[ShockTalk]

The teenagers didn't deserve to be treated the way they were treated at the beginning of the video, and they didn't deserve the treatment they got in the media right away after the event. I also think they totally came across as turds, so I'm probably not going to act like they were 100% innocent bystanders. If you can show me that the Colonels regularly use the Tomahawk Chop to support their team at their football games, I will immediately rescind my statement to Wufan (though, I'll be a little disheartened about the intelligence displayed by the school as a whole). Until then, it sure seems like the race of the Native Americans played a role in the behavior and chants chosen by the teenagers.

The teenagers were being taunted long before the Native Americans got into the picture. It was also said that he went to get in between the two groups to have a calming affect on everyone, yet, there was plenty of room to actually be in between, but he chose to walk into the group of boys. Up to that time the boys had only watch and did school cheers to drown out the BIs which had nothing to do with a tomahawk chop. The tomahawk chop happened after he entered the group. Why didn't he get in the faces of the BIs who were spewing all sorts of puke?

By the way, the boys were there because this was where their buses were to pick them up.

[MoValley John]

How do offers of blow jobs to anyone that either votes a certain way or punches a teenager in the face help the agenda of the #metoo monement?

[MoValley John]

[jdshock]

You can't condemn the actions of the kids without questioning the actions of everyone else. Since you thought it was wise to question the youths, you must defend the actions of others.

So every person who criticized the actions of Antifa or the left at Charlottesville were automatically defending the behavior of the Nazi folks?

[MoValley John]

So every person who criticized the actions of Antifa or the left at Charlottesville were automatically defending the behavior of the Nazi folks?

Not even analogous. Silly, in fact.

[jdshock]

Lol, what? Your whole point was that you can't condemn one side without defending the other. I just wish we could have a little nuance on here sometimes.

[MoValley John]

Really? These kids were doing nothing. Absolutely nothing! They were confronted face to face, with hate and anger. The kids response? A "violent and offensive" tomahawk chop you find at many pro stadiums across the country. Chiefs ring a bell? Braves, anyone?

In Charlottsville, you a rally regarding statues, many in attendance, racists. Antifa attacks, racists defend themself, followed by a lunatic ramming his car into the crowd.

And you think these are even remotely analogous? I made a mistake and gave you far too much credit.

[MoValley John]

And I didnt say defend, I said question the actions. Big difference. Both sides can be good, bad, or one good and one bad. Racists, Nazis and Antifa are all bad.

These kids were doing nothing but being where they were told to be. They were verbally attacked, and it was unprovoked. There response, a tomahawk chop. No dead bodies, no broken bones, not even a bruise. And you are trying to compare this to a rally full of haters which was confronted by a bunch of haters. Classic!

[jdshock]

Really? These kids were doing nothing. Absolutely nothing! They were confronted face to face, with hate and anger. The kids response? A "violent and offensive" tomahawk chop you find at many pro stadiums across the country. Chiefs ring a bell? Braves, anyone?

In Charlottsville, you a rally regarding statues, many in attendance, racists. Antifa attacks, racists defend themself, followed by a lunatic ramming his car into the crowd.

And you think these are even remotely analogous? I made a mistake and gave you far too much credit.

You understand that's an entirely different argument, though, right? Like... you understand that above, you said that if you question one party's actions, you automatically have to defend the other side? Here, you're saying the kids did nothing wrong.

Those are not consistent arguments. Clearly, your first position is absurd, but that's my point. Just because you questioned Antifa, doesn't mean you defended Nazis. Just because you question the kids, doesn't mean you are defending anyone else. I'm fully unaware of any law or rule that says "when you question the actions and behavior of the youths, you open up the examination of all parties," but it's especially not true when it relates to internet fights. People on here are always unwilling to acknowledge the gray.

[MoValley John]

Again, I didnt say defend, I said question.

[jdshock]

Geez... you literally said "Since you thought it was wise to question the youths, you must defend the actions of others."

[MoValley John]

Every Kansas City Chiefs fan is a racist.

[MoValley John]

Every Cleveland Indians fan is a racist.

[MoValley John]

Every Chicago Blackhawks fan is a racist.

[MoValley John]

Every Washington Redskins fan is a racist.