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  • #4861
    I think that the Dems complaining about Trump being the GOP nominee while sending Hillary Clinton up as theirs is freaking hilarious.

    Yeah, gee dunno why the GOP would want someone who would play by the rules the Dems play by for the past 20 years....

    They saw how McCain and Romney were treated. They were pretty honorable guys if you ask me and I could have sworn they were no better than pedoohiles and murderers after they went through the dem/media meat grinder.

    It is how it is. I would have preferred Cruz, but HRC is the real criminal and authoritarian and the American people saw it. Regardless of how California and New York voted.

    "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!
    • Likes 4

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    • #4862

      Resistance is futile (get it yet?).

      Comment

      • #4863
        How ya'll feel about coordinated campaign finance violations? Or persistently lying to the public about it?

        Comment

        • WstateU
          #4863.1
          WstateU commented
          August 21, 2018, 05:02 PM
          Editing a comment
          I don't know, but please post again quickly!

          Hurry, get to 667...
          • Likes 1
      • #4864
        I mean sure, if you trust a scumbag lawyer trying to bargain his way into a reduced sentence on committing tax evasion and fraud on over $20 million worth of loans. Seems like a trustworthy guy.
        Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!
        • Likes 1

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        • #4865
          Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post
          I mean sure, if you trust a scumbag lawyer trying to bargain his way into a reduced sentence on committing tax evasion and fraud on over $20 million worth of loans. Seems like a trustworthy guy.
          To be clear, there is NO bargain here. He does not have a deal with prosecutors to cooperate. Also I find it interesting soooo many around Trump is swampy but somehow he's untouched quite fascinating. People he voluntarily and in some cases for a lengthy time(such as is the case with Cohen) has been involved with are felons, but somehow Trump is it above it all. People Donnie has publicly defended and said were fine up standing people. Very interesting contrast.

          And to add, why is this unbelievable since you know we HAVE HEARD audio of them discussing payment.
          • Likes 2

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          • #4866
            Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post

            To be clear, there is NO bargain here. He does not have a deal with prosecutors to cooperate. Also I find it interesting soooo many around Trump is swampy but somehow he's untouched quite fascinating. People he voluntarily and in some cases for a lengthy time(such as is the case with Cohen) has been involved with are felons, but somehow Trump is it above it all. People Donnie has publicly defended and said were fine up standing people. Very interesting contrast.

            And to add, why is this unbelievable since you know we HAVE HEARD audio of them discussing payment.
            Well, all the news is reporting he struck a plea deal so .... ?

            But if you are really worried about campaign finance laws being broken, why didn't you ever bring this up? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...on-scheme.html
            Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

            Comment

            • jdshock
              #4866.1
              jdshock commented
              August 21, 2018, 05:38 PM
              Editing a comment
              A plea deal is in relation to his plea of guilty. It is not a "deal" in the sense of a settlement agreement where Cohen gets lessened punishment or something when he gives positive testimony. Mueller can possibly recommend a lighter sentence should Cohen cooperate in any future proceedings, but there's not like a signed contract or something.

              My personal opinion on the subject is that movies and tv REALLY play this up way more than it really matters in real life. In tv, we're always hearing someone say "well he's not getting punished at all because he testified in this case." The problem is that the first line of questioning on cross-examination is going to be all about the sweet deal they got in exchange for providing testimony. Yeah, the prosecutor definitely has leeway to recommend a lessened sentence to the judge, but Cohen is still pleading guilty and it's totally out of his hands at this point.
            • Kung Wu
              #4866.2
              Kung Wu commented
              August 21, 2018, 05:45 PM
              Editing a comment
              Yeah no doubt. He's going to jail. And his only way to reduce the damage is to help prosecutors go after Trump. That's the only card in his hand he can play, and he knows it. A complete scumbag.
              • Likes 1
            • jdshock
              #4866.3
              jdshock commented
              August 21, 2018, 05:50 PM
              Editing a comment
              I hadn't seen @ShockCrazy's post before I commented. I stand by my comment, but I do feel like we've piled on too much at this point. Ultimately, you're right that our legal system does sometimes create incentives for guilty people to deflect blame because of agreements to provide helpful testimony. I think the risk is overstated, but it does exist. We're not really at a point in the proceedings where we have any idea what the agreement would be in this case, though.
              • Likes 1
          • #4867
            Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

            Well, all the news is reporting he struck a plea deal so .... ?

            But if you are really worried about campaign finance laws being broken, why didn't you ever bring this up? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...on-scheme.html
            Plea deal does not imply cooperation. Most court cases don't go to trial and plea deals are struck without cooperation agreements. Plea deal implies he pleas guilty in order for reduced sentences or lesser charges. This is to save time and money from both sides.


            Classic whataboutism. I don't give a flying eff about Hilary. If she's guilty cool convict her. I. DO. NOT. CARE. I did not support her before nor now, but I do care when the President of this country lies to us regularly and has now been implicated in a federal crime because he is still operating ostensibly on my behalf as a citizen, she is not.

            Comment

            • #4868
              Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post
              Plea deal does not imply cooperation. Most court cases don't go to trial and plea deals are struck without cooperation agreements. Plea deal implies he pleas guilty in order for reduced sentences or lesser charges. This is to save time and money from both sides.


              Classic whataboutism. I don't give a flying eff about Hilary. If she's guilty cool convict her. I. DO. NOT. CARE. I did not support her before nor now, but I do care when the President of this country lies to us regularly and has now been implicated in a federal crime because he is still operating ostensibly on my behalf as a citizen, she is not.
              Understood. But he has committed serious crimes that have nothing to do with Trump, and Trump is his only way to reduce the damage. He is a complete scumbag. He has committed crime after crime, so why should he be trusted? It is quite probable HE committed any crimes related to Trump and lied to Trump while advising him.
              Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

              Comment

              • #4869
                Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post
                Classic whataboutism. I don't give a flying eff about Hilary. If she's guilty cool convict her. I. DO. NOT. CARE. I did not support her before nor now, but I do care when the President of this country lies to us regularly and has now been implicated in a federal crime because he is still operating ostensibly on my behalf as a citizen, she is not.
                You are assuming he has lied, based taking a scumbag's word for it.
                Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

                Comment

                • #4870
                  Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

                  Understood. But he has committed serious crimes that have nothing to do with Trump, and Trump is his only way to reduce the damage. He is a complete scumbag. He has committed crime after crime, so why should he be trusted? It is quite probable HE committed any crimes related to Trump and lied to Trump while advising him.
                  Lets take it back to the basics. The payments happened. Trump admits it, Cohen admits it, Stormy and Karen admit it. So that's a fact. Second why would a longtime lawyer for Trump not coordinate with him regarding a hush money payment, especially since it's his job? That's so implausible. Add in the fact we have a tape where they discuss the payment and how to execute it, and it's very clear Trump knew. Regarding whether or not it was illegal campaign contribution that's an easy paper trail, did Trump pay it upfront? If no it's a violation(he didn't, we know he tried to pay him back in 2017). Even unreported loans to the campaign no matter the purpose are campaign finance violations because it was clearly admitted to try influencing the election. Why are you willing to go through some monumental gymnastics to defend this man? Ask yourself that, I don't need or want an answer, it just might help to just reflect on what you are willing to defend and why.

                  Comment

                  • #4871
                    By the way, this really is huge news. Our justice system isn't perfect. There are certainly instances where innocent people plead guilty and there are instances where innocent people are found guilty by juries. I would guess, without any hard evidence to back this up, lawyers are much less likely to be innocent and still plead guilty. But regardless of what you think about our judicial system, there are a lot of checks in place to try to make sure people aren't innocent and still pleading guilty.

                    And at the end of the day, someone has accused the current president of the United States of requesting his personal lawyer commit a campaign finance crime, and Cohen is going to plead guilty to the count that says he made that campaign finance violation in response to Trump's request.
                    • Likes 1

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                    • #4872
                      This really is get your popcorn time. Paying porn stars to keep quiet is now campaign finance lawbreaking....

                      im not saying it isn't per se, just think that 75% of congress is clenching their sphincters right about now.
                      "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!
                      • Likes 1

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                      • #4873
                        Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
                        This really is get your popcorn time. Paying porn stars to keep quiet is now campaign finance lawbreaking....

                        im not saying it isn't per se, just think that 75% of congress is clenching their sphincters right about now.
                        I don't think you get it. It's not the pay off that's a problem. It's that it was paid for by a 3rd party well above contribution limits explicitly to aid the campaign. Donald could have done this himself but he likes to keep himself "clean".

                        Comment

                        • #4874
                          Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post

                          Lets take it back to the basics. The payments happened. Trump admits it, Cohen admits it, Stormy and Karen admit it. So that's a fact. Second why would a longtime lawyer for Trump not coordinate with him regarding a hush money payment, especially since it's his job? That's so implausible. Add in the fact we have a tape where they discuss the payment and how to execute it, and it's very clear Trump knew. Regarding whether or not it was illegal campaign contribution that's an easy paper trail, did Trump pay it upfront? If no it's a violation(he didn't, we know he tried to pay him back in 2017). Even unreported loans to the campaign no matter the purpose are campaign finance violations because it was clearly admitted to try influencing the election. Why are you willing to go through some monumental gymnastics to defend this man? Ask yourself that, I don't need or want an answer, it just might help to just reflect on what you are willing to defend and why.
                          Please provide a link to the tape audio. I haven't heard it yet.
                          Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

                          Comment

                        • #4875
                          Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post

                          I don't think you get it. It's not the pay off that's a problem. It's that it was paid for by a 3rd party well above contribution limits explicitly to aid the campaign. Donald could have done this himself but he likes to keep himself "clean".
                          When you say it, it makes it sound so much more corrupt. Hillary and Bill are so much more clean.

                          Comment

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