Trump

[shockfan89_]

That is exactly it. It would have only been illegal if it was truly an agent of the Russian government offering him intelligence and he failed to report it to authorities. If it had been true that Hillary was colluding with the Russian government, then Don Jr would have been obligated to report that to the FBI to investigate.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

@shockfan89_, you should probably tell all the folks who have been busted for soliciting a prostitute that they did nothing wrong. I mean, it if wasn't truly a prostitute, and was merely an undercover FBI agent, then they are innocent, correct?

[shockfan89_]

JH4P - That is all great. Only problem is she turned out not to be a Russian government attorney and had no information from a senior Russian government official. It was all a lie to meet with the Trump campaign. Once they determined this, the meeting was cut short and there was no further contact. That doesn't really meet the definition of collusion.

[ShockCrazy]

That is exactly it. It would have only been illegal if it was truly an agent of the Russian government offering him intelligence and he failed to report it to authorities. If it had been true that Hillary was colluding with the Russian government, then Don Jr would have been obligated to report that to the FBI to investigate.

One it is irrelevant if she was working for the Russian government: https://transition.fec.gov/pages/bro...ml#Prohibition It literally entirely hinges on whether this information is a campaign contribution, if so it is absolutely illegal even by attempting to meet regardless what if any information was transferred.

[shockfan89_]

@shockfan89_, you should probably tell all the folks who have been busted for soliciting a prostitute that they did nothing wrong. I mean, it if wasn't truly a prostitute, and was merely an undercover FBI agent, then they are innocent, correct?

Good analogy. But, it is legal to meet with a prostitute and talk to her/him. It only becomes illegal when you agree to perform and illegal act. Which illegal act did they agree to in this 20 minute meeting?

[ShockCrazy]

JH4P - That is all great. Only problem is she turned out not to be a Russian government attorney and had no information from a senior Russian government official. It was all a lie to meet with the Trump campaign. Once they determined this the meeting was cut short and there was no further contact. That doesn't really meat the definition of collusion.

You are also ignoring that the issue she misdirected to meeting was still related to negotiating Russian sanctions.

[jdshock]

JH4P - That is all great. Only problem is she turned out not to be a Russian government attorney and had no information from a senior Russian government official. It was all a lie to meet with the Trump campaign. Once they determined this the meeting was cut short and there was no further contact. That doesn't really meat the definition of collusion.

But that's getting into incredibly detailed, debatable questions about the exact laws that apply. Can someone "intend" to collude? Do both parties have to agree on the purpose of the meeting? Etc.

The point is, can you support someone that was obviously trying to get information on Clinton from the Russia government? If so, that's fine, I suppose. If not, let's make sure the investigation keeps going.

[shockfan89_]

One it is irrelevant if she was working for the Russian government: https://transition.fec.gov/pages/bro...ml#Prohibition It literally entirely hinges on whether this information is a campaign contribution, if so it is absolutely illegal even by attempting to meet regardless what if any information was transferred.

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly.

I don't think any of that occurred. Did it?

And BTW. How did the Clinton Foundation skirt this law when there are obvious donations to the Clinton Foundation by foreign nationals?

[shockfan89_]

But the USA didn't ban adoptions with Russia, Russia banned adoptions to the US. So this Russian was meeting with Don Jr to remove a sanction the Russian government has on adoptions??? Shouldn't she be taking that up with the Russian government?

[ShockCrazy]

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly.

I don't think any of that occurred. Did it?

That's the crux of the issue, contributions need not always be monetary. Information could be considered a contribution, many places have discussed this and it is uncertain, but if it were ruled a contribution it was an illegal meeting in no uncertain terms.

[shockmonster]

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly.

I don't think any of that occurred. Did it?

I think that it did, when Bill Clinton received 1 million dollars from Bahrain, to go to the Clinton Foundation. Man, they are good at hiding money and what it is used for.

[shockfan89_]

That's the crux of the issue, contributions need not always be monetary. Information could be considered a contribution, many places have discussed this and it is uncertain, but if it were ruled a contribution it was an illegal meeting in no uncertain terms.

I agree if it were ruled to be a contribution, but how do you get non-monetary from "contributing, donating or spending funds"? And then you get into arguing what was contributed? So far it appears absolutely nothing came of this meeting.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

But the USA didn't ban adoptions with Russia, Russia banned adoptions to the US. So this Russian was meeting with Don Jr to remove a sanction the Russian government has on adoptions??? Shouldn't she be taking that up with the Russian government?

Oh my.

Russia implemented the adoption ban as a "hey U.S., take that" response to sanctions against Russia. Any discussion of "adoption" was Russia trying to get the U.S. to ease up on its sanctions.

Adoption sounds like an innocent topic, but in this context, it was far from it. Everything suggests Russia wanted to deal with the Trump family. "Here, we will help you win, and then, you give us X in return" type of stuff.

Dirty. Really really dirty.

[ShockCrazy]

Sorry, I disagree. How do you get non-monetary from "contributing, donating or spending funds"?

Because those are 3 separate things you are conflating as tied to funds. It is contributing to a campaign, donating to a campaign, or spending campaign funds. Otherwise donations and contributions would be redundant and serve no purpose.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Good analogy. But, it is legal to meet with a prostitute and talk to her/him. It only becomes illegal when you agree to perform and illegal act. Which illegal act did they agree to in this 20 minute meeting?

Trump Jr: A prostitute wants to provide me with her services?
Friend: Yep
Trump Jr: Wow, sweet. Yes please.
*Meets with prostitute but she fails to "deliver the goods"*
*1 year passes*

Trump Jr: See folks, I did nothing wrong. I wanted to, I agreed to, and I went to meet her with every intention to, but hey, it didn't work out. Look at me. Good guy. Didn't do anything with a prostitute. Reliable husband. That's me.